Please list/mention Obama's Accomplishments

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

When you're talking defense cuts, I'd have to see what's on the table before I agree. I don't believe we should cut the number of our forces, close bases etc. There are numerous weapons programs that aren't essential. These should be cut. The war in Afghanistan will either be won using unconventional troops or it won't be won at all. We are wasting money and resources there, no doubt. Yet, we can't simply pack up and go home. A presence of Spec Ops troops, diplomats etc needs to remain there to stop that country from sliding completely back into the madness of the 1990's.

We out-spend our Chinese friends 6-1 in defense. I am fairly confident we could cut our defense budget in half and still be able to effectively protect our country from our enemies. As for "winning" Afghanistan, I have no idea what you're talking about. Afghanistan consists of little more than disconnected tribes and they're along fucking ways from ever becoming a country with a true central goverment or anything resembling an economy. Our only goal there should be to eliminate our enemies and leave, period. You can only win hearts and minds there until the money runs out. If it's not the Taliban, it will be some other fundemental fuck nuts that come in and seize control the minute we leave.

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

I did some math on the illegal immigrant criminals. Not those in the Federal system, there for only violating immigration laws. I'm talking about the ones in state and county prison and jails. There's approximately

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

300,000 locked up currently for actual crimes. It's costing counties and states approximately $35,000 per year per inmate to house, guard and feed them.
That's $10,500,000,000 annually we're spending on criminal illegal aliens.

Ahh, now we're getting somewhere!

Just so we're clear, your argument now is against the cost of housing criminals who happen to be in this country illegally right? There's no argument there. Any amount of tax payer money to house these folks is obviouosly money that could and should be used elsewhere. That said:

Our prison system including U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails currently houses about 2.3 million folks. If your numbers are correct, then that means 13% of our entire prison system is filled with illegal aliens. A number I HIGHLY doubt is correct given that the total illegal alien population in this country is estimated between 12-20 million folks, or roughly 4-6% of our population. Please share your source for this information and we'll see if we can get to the bottom of this myth of yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarce..._United_States

As far as stationing National Guard troops on the border, how is that going to stop the other half of all illegal aliens who are visa overstayers and not border jumpers? Seems like a big waste of money no matter the cost if you ask me. As I stated before, the best and only real solution in my eyes is to take away their reasons for coming and staying here. Do that and you wont need any troops at the border. That is, unless you're actually trying to solve a criminal problem and not an illegal alien problem, which are not the same thing. Moving on...

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Come on, I expect more out of you. Let's not use his race as an excuse for EITHER side. Fact is, even his supporters are terribly disappointed in him. You want to know why. Not because of his race, not even based on his policies alone. What repulses people, including many of his supporters, is that he turned out to be a complete FRAUD. You see, having unpopular polices is one thing. The fact is though that IN HIS OWN WORDS he gave people the impression that he would change the nature of politics in Washington. He committed the sin of giving people HOPE and making them BELIEVE that he was committed to change. Instead, he cowered down from fights, he got in bed with special interests no different than Bush before him, he made back door deals and his promise of "transparency" has become the joke of his administration.

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

These are the reasons people are fed up with him. In other words, if you're going to be a liberal, be a liberal and stand up for your beliefs. But don't go blaming conservatives for the way they conduct business in Washington and then get in bed with the very same people, sell yourself to the lobbyists and fail to set yourself apart on the issues you promised change on.
This is why he has failed and this is why people say he isn't a LEADER and I have to agree.

I think it's absolutely true. He's an outsider and I don't think many people, either inside Washington or outside in the general population have ever considered him legitimate because he's a black man in a traditionally white elitist world. I will expain further....You remember this little ditty?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foOioaQf-c8

For those that can't be bothered, this is footage of Joe Wilson back in September of 2009 just nine short months since Obama took office, screaming and heckling THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES at a nationally televised speech for all the world to see. Now you tell me, can anyone ever imagine this happening to ANY other president in history? I certainly cannot. George Bush would have waterboarded Joe Wilson's ass and tried him for treason had it happened to him.

You care to explain to me where such disrespect and disregard for the highest office a politican can hold in the entire world came from? It didn't come from one single piece of partisan legislation nine months in to office, I'll tell you that!

You're of course welcome to disagree, but I think it's hard to. He's never been accepted by the white male elitist majority, and I believe his color is a big part of the reason.

Above and beyond that, I think you've stated some very good reasons for disliking him, some of which I share to some degree. But that's not what you ever him from dimwits like Wyldeman, Billy_Saul, or any of the dull bulbs who attend Tea Party rallies or watch Fox regularly. It's always "spending" this or "socialist" that. Neither of which have any truth to them whatsoever.

Nice to see someone around here with their eyes and ears open for a change.

[Billy_Saul]

Originally Posted by F-Sharp

Above and beyond that, I think you've stated some very good reasons for disliking him, some of which I share to some degree. But that's not what you ever him from dimwits like Wyldeman, Billy_Saul, or any of the dull bulbs who attend Tea Party rallies or watch Fox regularly. It's always "spending" this or "socialist" that. Neither of which have any truth to them whatsoever.

I don't attend Tea Party rallies and I rarely watch Fox News. I can't imagine where you get the basis for these claims. Hell, I am not even a Republican. This is a big problem with debating you, you simply make stuff up. My dislike for the job that Obama has done boils down to the simple fact that he is incompetent. You allude to the very same thing yourself when you refer to the stimulus program. If the Democrats had focused the money on projects that would have sprouted jobs instead of spreading money all over the place as political reward then it would have been money well spent. Can you not understand why congress is hesitant to give him trillions more to waste?

I actually share some of your opinions but in your zeal to attack anyone who questions this administration I guess you overlook that.

[WyldemanATX]

Originally Posted by F-Sharp

Above and beyond that, I think you've stated some very good reasons for disliking him, some of which I share to some degree. But that's not what you ever him from dimwits like Wyldeman, Billy_Saul, or any of the dull bulbs who attend Tea Party rallies or watch Fox regularly. It's always "spending" this or "socialist" that. Neither of which have any truth to them whatsoever.

Name calling and closed minded views....Your battle cry is Tea Party and Fox News to everyone that opposes your Savior Obama...Keep the blinders on you Government drone....

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by Billy_Saul

I don't attend Tea Party rallies and I rarely watch Fox News. I can't imagine where you get the basis for these claims. Hell, I am not even a Republican. This is a big problem with debating you, you simply make stuff up. My dislike for the job that Obama has done boils down to the simple fact that he is incompetent. You allude to the very same thing yourself when you refer to the stimulus program. If the Democrats had focused the money on projects that would have sprouted jobs instead of spreading money all over the place as political reward then it would have been money well spent. Can you not understand why congress is hesitant to give him trillions more to waste?

I actually share some of your opinions but in your zeal to attack anyone who questions this administration I guess you overlook that.

Ahem....

Originally Posted by Billy_Saul

Obama is a community organizer. Never ran anything in his life. Doesn't have a clue. When you spend $850B dollars on the things he did of course there will be no positive economic results, only debt and a devalued dollar.

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?...02#post1318202

Originally Posted by Billy_Saul

Hopefully the lot of Republican candidates will thin out sooner rather than later so the party can unite with the sole purpose of defeating the current socialist administration. Normally I vote Libertarian but this election is so important we must get the democrats out at all cost, four more years of Hussein O'Bama and we may never be able to dig our way out.

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?...08#post1314608

Granted, you're probably the least dimwited of the dimwits here, but you never seem to comment on facts or commit to a real discussion. I was particularly fond of your latest....

Originally Posted by Billy_Saul

BARACKAYLPSE NOW

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion I suppose, but you're always the first one to back out of an adult discussion when confronted on your little soundbytes.

[Billy_Saul]

Originally Posted by F-Sharp

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion I suppose, but you're always the first one to back out of an adult discussion when confronted on your little soundbytes.

Point taken. I'll make an effort from now on to follow through better but I simply don't spend the time on here to debate politics for hundreds and hundreds of posts. And it's not like I am going to change your opinion nor do I have any interest in trying to do so.

[wildcharlie]

A title does not make the man. Calling him Dr. Savage is like calling Clarence Thomas Mr. Justice. Neither is deserving of the title.

[wildcharlie]

Utter bs. US corps are sitting on several trillion dollars. They are buying back their own stock, but not creating jobs. Uncertainty is not the problem.

[wildcharlie]

Bush 43 doubled the national debt in 8 years. He accumulated as much debt as the previous 42 presidents. Obama is expected to fix this problem in 2.5 years? What planet are you folks living on?

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by wildcharlie

What planet are you folks living on?

It is called Planet Tea. Apparently you have not been attending their parties!

[gfejunkie]

Originally Posted by wildcharlie

A title does not make the man. Calling him Dr. Savage is like calling Clarence Thomas Mr. Justice. Neither is deserving of the title.

Say what you will, it's an earned title.

More proof daily...

http://www.eccie.net/showpost.php?p=1557408&postcount=1

Effie needs an intervention before he self-destructs.

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by gfejunkie

Say what you will, it's an earned title.

Indeed. Now let's all start calling his radio show and ask him how to get rid of Dandelions and how to keep St. Augustine from growing in to the flowerbeds.


______________________________

'You know what autism is? I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out.' ~ Dr. Michael Savage

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by F-Sharp

We out-spend our Chinese friends 6-1 in defense. I am fairly confident we could cut our defense budget in half and still be able to effectively protect our country from our enemies. As for "winning" Afghanistan, I have no idea what you're talking about. Afghanistan consists of little more than disconnected tribes and they're along fucking ways from ever becoming a country with a true central goverment or anything resembling an economy. Our only goal there should be to eliminate our enemies and leave, period. You can only win hearts and minds there until the money runs out. If it's not the Taliban, it will be some other fundemental fuck nuts that come in and seize control the minute we leave.

Exactly. We've seen what happens when we allow some "fuck nuts" to come and seize control. Our goal at this point should be to simply prevent that from happening. We can accomplish that by maintaining a sufficient amount of trainers for the Afghan Army and Police force, a sufficient amount of Spec Ops troops for missions beyond the Afghan Army's capability and our Diplomatic Staff. We should not have 100,000 conventional troops there. Yes, we may have to maintain a presence there for another decade but it should be a very reduced presence which translates into much less money spent on the effort. That's my two cents based on the last six years I've spent in that country.

[color=#0000ff]

Ahh, now we're getting somewhere!

Just so we're clear, your argument now is against the cost of housing criminals who happen to be in this country illegally right? There's no argument there. Any amount of tax payer money to house these folks is obviouosly money that could and should be used elsewhere. That said:

Our prison system including U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails currently houses about 2.3 million folks. If your numbers are correct, then that means 13% of our entire prison system is filled with illegal aliens. A number I HIGHLY doubt is correct given that the total illegal alien population in this country is estimated between 12-20 million folks, or roughly 4-6% of our population. Please share your source for this information and we'll see if we can get to the bottom of this myth of yours.

Here you go buddy:
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html
Number of convicted criminal aliens; Inmates incarcerated in federal prison on December 27, 2003: 46,063; Inmates incarcerated by state prisons and local jails between July 1, 2002, and June 30, 2003, and submitted to SCAAP for reimbursement: 262,105.
SCAAP is the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program

So I arrived at my rounded number of 300,000 by using the above figures from 2003 and guessing that in the 8 years since it's probably safe to assume that those numbers are now slightly higher.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarce..._United_States

As far as stationing National Guard troops on the border, how is that going to stop the other half of all illegal aliens who are visa overstayers and not border jumpers? Seems like a big waste of money no matter the cost if you ask me. As I stated before, the best and only real solution in my eyes is to take away their reasons for coming and staying here. Do that and you wont need any troops at the border. That is, unless you're actually trying to solve a criminal problem and not an illegal alien problem, which are not the same thing. Moving on...

I have no issue at all with reducing or eliminating the incentives that cause illegals to come here. Do I believe corporations should be punished for hiring illegals? YEP! However until that is instituted and shows results by an actual decline in illegal immigration, I believe in putting troops on the border along with physical barriers such as the fence. In all honesty, with the resources we have these days, everything from UAV's to ground sensors etc, if the manpower is there to back those things up, we CAN put a serious dent in illegal immigration. You say that would only eliminate HALF? Brother, I'll take a 50% reduction in illegal immigration ANY DAY! I think the majority of the country would feel the same.




I think it's absolutely true. He's an outsider and I don't think many people, either inside Washington or outside in the general population have ever considered him legitimate because he's a black man in a traditionally white elitist world. I will expain further....You remember this little ditty?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foOioaQf-c8

For those that can't be bothered, this is footage of Joe Wilson back in September of 2009 just nine short months since Obama took office, screaming and heckling THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES at a nationally televised speech for all the world to see. Now you tell me, can anyone ever imagine this happening to ANY other president in history? I certainly cannot. George Bush would have waterboarded Joe Wilson's ass and tried him for treason had it happened to him.

You care to explain to me where such disrespect and disregard for the highest office a politican can hold in the entire world came from? It didn't come from one single piece of partisan legislation nine months in to office, I'll tell you that!

I don't know Joe Wilson. I am not going to ASSUME (you know what they say about that word right?) that he made an outburst of "You Lie!" and automatically assume he did because he's racist. I'll tell you this. I've heard many a person mention that they are surprised that "O" is still alive. That's the kind of hate this man has stirred up in people.
And you never commented on how he is guilty of many of the exact same things that the liberals like to accuse Bush of.
And let's put aside for a moment what other Presidents have done. Let's simply look at common sense. When I have financial issues troubling me, it keeps me up at night. I know I'm responsible for the physical, financial and emotional well being of my family. So if we're going through hard financial times, the LAST thing I would do is take a vacation. Yet, here's Obama running off to Martha's Vineyard. He's been in office 2 years and how many vacations has he taken? Again, I know others have done so but the point is he held himself out to be different. 2-3 Vacations in 2 years isn't enough. You can't suck it up and give this one up when you know the Country you've been chosen to lead is struggling through one of it's most difficult times? How many freaking vacations do our troops get when they're deployed? Give me a break!

You're of course welcome to disagree, but I think it's hard to. He's never been accepted by the white male elitist majority, and I believe his color is a big part of the reason.

Above and beyond that, I think you've stated some very good reasons for disliking him, some of which I share to some degree. But that's not what you ever him from dimwits like Wyldeman, Billy_Saul, or any of the dull bulbs who attend Tea Party rallies or watch Fox regularly. It's always "spending" this or "socialist" that. Neither of which have any truth to them whatsoever.

Now see, again, that's simply just labeling. Big Tex and others are only capable of making fun of the Tea Party. I've never attended a rally but do I agree with some of their core concepts? Yes I do. I do believe we should have less Federal Government not more. I do believe that the Federal Government interferes too frequently into States' affairs. I do believe in more accountability. I most certainly agree with upholding our Second Amendment. If that makes me a Tea party "nut" so be it.


Nice to see someone around here with their eyes and ears open for a change.

.

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Here you go buddy:
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html
Number of convicted criminal aliens; Inmates incarcerated in federal prison on December 27, 2003: 46,063; Inmates incarcerated by state prisons and local jails between July 1, 2002, and June 30, 2003, and submitted to SCAAP for reimbursement: 262,105.
SCAAP is the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program

So I arrived at my rounded number of 300,000 by using the above figures from 2003 and guessing that in the 8 years since it's probably safe to assume that those numbers are now slightly higher.

As I thought. Your rounded 300,000 number is "number if convicted criminal aliens". The real number is directly below where it says:

"Number of unique convicted criminal aliens with a FBI identification
number and an alien identification number"

In the same document:

"Generally, all aliens arrested by the DHS’s U.S. Immigration and
Customs Enforcement (ICE) are assigned an alien identification number.
This allows ICE to establish and track an alien’s immigration history."

The *real* numbers are here:

"Number of unique convicted criminal aliens with a FBI identification
number and an alien identification number
Inmates incarcerated in federal prison on December 27, 2003: 36,390;
Inmates incarcerated by state prisons and local jails and submitted to
SCAAP for reimbursement[NOTE 1]: 59,427."

The 300,000 figure represent ALL INCARCERATIONS, and includes repeat offenders, not individual, unique offenders. Math time:

59,427 / 2.2 million = 0.027 or

a little better than 2% of the state's prison and jail population.

Add in the amount of Federal prisoners and you get:

59,427 + 36,390 = 95,817

95817 / 2.2 million = 0.043 or

4% of the entire prison population is made up of illegal aliens, which as I previously posted is EXACTLY in line with their make-up of the United States population by best guesstimates. If you'd like to compare recidivism rates among ethnic groups or cultures compared to illegals we can do that to and see if they're consistent if you like. I'll bet you cash money it'll be the same.

Ya, ya, I know. Facts suck.

Again, I do recognize you're point in that it's still a cost we should not be paying, but it certainly proves illegal aliens are not commiting any more crime than anyone else in this country as you originally tried to claim and I strongly disputed. In fact, it's quite a bit less when compared to some other ethnic or racial makeups if you wanted to compare apples to oranges. Now, please don't ever try and make that particular claim again. You now know better.

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by F-Sharp

As I thought. Your rounded 300,000 number is "number if convicted criminal aliens". The real number is directly below where it says:

"Number of unique convicted criminal aliens with a FBI identification
number and an alien identification number"

In the same document:

"Generally, all aliens arrested by the DHS’s U.S. Immigration and
Customs Enforcement (ICE) are assigned an alien identification number.
This allows ICE to establish and track an alien’s immigration history."

The *real* numbers are here:

"Number of unique convicted criminal aliens with a FBI identification
number and an alien identification number
Inmates incarcerated in federal prison on December 27, 2003: 36,390;
Inmates incarcerated by state prisons and local jails and submitted to
SCAAP for reimbursement[NOTE 1]: 59,427."

The 300,000 figure represent ALL INCARCERATIONS, and includes repeat offenders, not individual, unique offenders. Math time:

59,427 / 2.2 million = 0.027 or

a little better than 2% of the state's prison and jail population.

Add in the amount of Federal prisoners and you get:

59,427 + 36,390 = 95,817

95817 / 2.2 million = 0.043 or

4% of the entire prison population is made up of illegal aliens, which as I previously posted is EXACTLY in line with their make-up of the United States population by best guesstimates. If you'd like to compare recidivism rates among ethnic groups or cultures compared to illegals we can do that to and see if they're consistent if you like. I'll bet you cash money it'll be the same.

Ya, ya, I know. Facts suck.

Again, I do recognize you're point in that it's still a cost we should not be paying, but it certainly proves illegal aliens are not commiting any more crime than anyone else in this country as you originally tried to claim and I strongly disputed. In fact, it's quite a bit less when compared to some other ethnic or racial makeups if you wanted to compare apples to oranges. Now, please don't ever try and make that particular claim again. You now know better.

"Number of convicted criminal aliens; Inmates incarcerated in federal prison on December 27, 2003: 46,063; Inmates incarcerated by state prisons and local jails and submitted to SCAAP for reimbursement[NOTE 1]: 262,105".
Don't quite know why you're acting so smug. It doesn't freaking matter if they're "unique" or not. Even if they are a repeat offender, the federal and state and local governments pick up the tab financially for them. It doesn't matter if it's their 1st or 10th arrest. During the one year period indicated in the study, 262,105 criminal illegal aliens were submitted to SCAAP for reimbursement. THAT is the number that counts when you're talking financial costs. Now you can argue that this cost doesn't break down for what length of incarceration time within that year the local and state governments sought reimbursement. So it's not the number of illegals being submitted to SCAAP that I got wrong, it's the fact that not all of them were locked up for a full year because as you pointed out, some were repeat offenders and had multiple stays within the study time and therefore were submitted multiple times to SCAAP. So the number that you would adjust is the $35,000 annual cost of housing them and for that you would need to know the average length of incarceration within the year that the study used for it's data.

You're a riot F-Sharp, you really are.
And please, STOP misquoting me. I didn't say "illegals are committing more crimes than anyone else in this country". I specifically said that in certain areas of Austin, Illegals account for over half the crimes when it comes to burglary of vehicles and other property crimes. And before you ask, for the 4th time, I got THAT information from speaking with some APD Detectives who investigate those types of crimes. I would never say "in the country" since obviously the numbers in border states are higher than in non border states. We then got into the debate about costs. As I mentioned, the SCAAP reimbursements are one way to track financial costs but they ONLY take into consideration those that are caught and locked up. The real cost to this country due to crimes committed by illegal aliens is much harder to calculate since many are never caught.
Tell you what, go on a ride-a-long with APD one time and see what happens on any given night when an APD officer pulls over an illegal alien on a traffic stop. Observe the fun as that Officer enters the illegal's name into his Mobile Data Terminal and gets about 80 replies under the name given by the Illegal Alien. The Officer then gets to make a choice. Does he take himself out of service and transport the Illegal to the station to fingerprint him in an effort to verify his identity OR does he simply write him a ticket under the name the Illegal provided? 2 Hours out of service vs a 10 minute traffic stop. I'll let you guess what most Officers decide to do.
We won't even get into the financial costs when they are involved in accidents with no license, no insurance etc.
Please, the 10 Billion annual number I gave earlier is probably far underestimated when you take all the costs of their criminal activities into account.
"They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses"

That's 700,000 criminal offenses, in one year, in the United States that would wouldn't
have been committed had these illegals been kept out of our country. Twist it, rationalize it,
try to compare it to blacks (it's okay to say that word F-sharp, you keep saying "other ethnic group
when talking about blacks which I find sort of funny that you can't even mention an ethnic group by name)
but at the end of the day, Hundreds of thousands MORE Americans are victimized by crimes committed by illegals
that otherwise wouldn't be. Billions are spent that otherwise wouldn't be.
And in SOME areas of Texas and Arizona they commit a disproportionate number of crimes.
So your arguments are completely mute. An extra person in your household that doesn't legally live there but eats your food, utilizes your utilities, steals from you, demands free handouts and that you and your family speak Spanish while he's sitting in your living room, drives your car and wrecks it even though he's not on the insurance and when he goes to jail, YOU are responsible for putting money in his jail account so he can eat and have some comforts while locked up, THAT my friend is going to cost YOUR family a substantial amount of money. That's what we as a country do every single day for MILLIONS of Illegal Aliens. Get it?

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

You're a riot F-Sharp, you really are.

Some people just don't know when they're beat. Again, if you want to compare recidivism rates I am happy to do that for you. Honestly, I don't even know what you're attempting to debate here. I already clearly stated more than once that I agree that the crimes they do commit are something we shouldn't be paying for, but it also stands to reason that we shouldn't have to pay for ANY crime committed by ANY culture living within our society. If you want to use crime as an indicator as to who should stay and who should go, then you're going to be throwing out the wrong folks, citizens or not.

My points in this entire discussion is a. Illegals are not committing any more crime than anyone else, and b. the amount of crime they are committing is not disproportionate to their population. Honestly, I don't understand your argument at all. Would you be okay with the crime these folks are committing if we made them citizens? There's really no difference to me whether they are here legally or not. A criminal is a criminal and the only real difference between someone here illegally and myself is nothing more than a few hundred dollars in fees and a passport. I'm not going to debate some self-righteous racially charged argument that I somehow *deserve* to be here more than them by nothing more than the dumb luck of my parents fucking and giving birth within some imaginary line.

Honestly, based on your numbers of 96,000 individuals that's not even one percent of their total numbers. Using crime as an argument for debate in immigration is just stupid. When you step back and look at the big picture, it's clear these folks are not criminals, regardless of what your "APD detectives" are telling you.

I say if you don't want illegals here than you have one choice: make the one's already here citizens and take away the incentive for any new ones to come here. Neither of which is going to reduce crime, and in fact the latter will ultimately create more crime by dislocating people who have no where else to go.

Yeah, I'm a real riot.