So, you still think Covid came from Bats?

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Yeah, there's a lot of technical jargon for a layman like me to digest. Like "furin cleavage site" lol.

it also very long. I'm not finished reading it.


the article does try to put it in layman terms so the average reader understands what going on.

[Ripmany]

Covid-19 is fake it really oboma clean up doctors killing people.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

it also very long. I'm not finished reading it.

the article does try to put it in layman terms so the average reader understands what going on.

the scientists omerta over where this virus came from is really disappointing and their behavior on the "gain of function" research is concerning.


they would not give a fair number of people credit on the research last year. those who do try do speak up about it risk losing research funds and their careers.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Here's another one I posted earlier in this thread.
Read it too, slowly and carefully. Then tell us where Drs. Quay and Muller are wrong.
https://eccie.net/showpost.php?p=106...&postcount=179

I'm not a virologist or epidemiologist and I have no actual proof of anything relating to the origin of the novel coronavirus. Just my opinion. And it is my opinion that occam's razor applies to this situation. The simplest explanation is usually the best one.

It's more likely that random chance and a random mutation caused the spread of the novel coronavirus in humans rather than an accidental lab leak. I make this statement because of the millions of years of evolution that created viruses in the first place and the ability of said viruses to spread amongst anything that they can infect and use to multiply. All in an area so brimming with coronaviruses that they built a lab in that location called the Wuhan institute of Virology.

Unless someone can actually link the virus to the Wuhan lab using dna sequencing or some kind of internal documentation from the lab I'll have trouble believing it came from them (because it's just not logical) and I certainly wouldn't want to use this as an excuse to punish the Chinese or their government. We have plenty of other reasons to do that without adding a worldwide pandemic (which affected the Chinese people as well) to the list.

Again just my opinion. You are free to make your own judgement.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

I certainly wouldn't want to use this as an excuse to punish the Chinese or their government.

I agree with that. Say contrary to what you think this was the result of a lab accident. Well, shit happens. They were conducting research that they thought would help prevent or control a future pandemic. If the research went awry and caused a few million deaths and a few trillion in lost economic output, they fucked up royally. But they fucked up with the best of intentions. Did Chairman Xi or other top CCP functionaries know what was going on at the Wuhan lab? No, not any more than Donald Trump and top administration officials knew what was going on at virus labs in the USA. How about the Chinese people? No, only a few. You could blame PRC leaders for a coverup, but not necessarily for the accident.

Going after China with $10 trillion lawsuits or massive sanctions is self defeating. The lawyers and the crony capitalists win and everyone else loses. Furthermore you're not going to get many other countries to go along with that, and it's not the most effective way to get to the bottom of what happened and prevent it from happening again.

This is not to say you're wrong. There are people who know a whole lot more about this than anyone posting here who believe the virus did not escape from the Wuhan lab.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I agree with that. Say contrary to what you think this was the result of a lab accident. Well, shit happens. They were conducting research that they thought would help prevent or control a future pandemic. If the research went awry and caused a few million deaths and a few trillion in lost economic output, they fucked up royally. But they fucked up with the best of intentions. Did Chairman Xi or other top CCP functionaries know what was going on at the Wuhan lab? No, not any more than Donald Trump and top administration officials knew what was going on at virus labs in the USA. How about the Chinese people? No, only a few. You could blame PRC leaders for a coverup, but not necessarily for the accident.

Going after China with $10 trillion lawsuits or massive sanctions is self defeating. The lawyers and the crony capitalists win and everyone else loses. Furthermore you're not going to get many other countries to go along with that, and it's not the most effective way to get to the bottom of what happened and prevent it from happening again.

This is not to say you're wrong. There are people who know a whole lot more about this than anyone posting here who believe the virus did not escape from the Wuhan lab.

Nothing accidental about it.

[goodman0422]

Originally Posted by Tiny

You could blame PRC leaders for a coverup, but not necessarily for the the accident.

If it was a coverup, then they knew there was a leak. If the leak was "accidental", why would the CCP allow international flights to leave Wuhan but halt domestic flights from Wuhan to other parts of China?

Wouldn't stopping travel from Wuhan prevent the spread
It's almost like they wanted it to spread... almost.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by goodman0422

If it was a coverup, then they knew there was a leak. If the leak was "accidental", why would the CCP allow international flights to leave Wuhan but halt domestic flights from Wuhan to other parts of China?

Wouldn't stopping travel from Wuhan prevent the spread
It's almost like they wanted it to spread... almost.

The reason was that people wanted to leave to get back to their home countries. Most international flights held foreigners to China not Chinese citizens. The Chinese government stopped all travel into the country and most domestic travel to stop the spread of the spread of the virus in their own country. They let foreign guests leave the country rather than have them have them be held in lock down for an extended period of time.

It was certainly smarter than what the US did. The US stopped travel to China but kept open travel to Europe even while Italy was in the middle of their first surge of cases and it was spreading rapidly through the region. That didn't help anyone.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

Fuck China. Fuck USA if they had anything to do with it. Fuck Fauci if that mothefucker had anything to do with it.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-...-box-at-wuhan/

Then read:

https://humansarefree.com/2021/06/as...the-world.html


Viola!

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

Some legwork has has been done by someone described as an "Investigative Journalist" with a science background. I presume "investigative journalist" is some new-agey, unicorney, thing, 'cause one just doesn't ever see, let alone hear of, an actual one in the wild. Some say they had existed in history, but had gone extinct. You decide.

Try hunting for an article published May 5, 2021 from a Mr Nicolas Wade, titled:
The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?

He takes an agnostic view of two possible origins (paths) of the Wu-Flu and what both would/should look like. It's a long and informative read.

First three paragraphs:
The COVID-19 pandemic has disrupted lives the world over for more than a year. Its death toll will soon reach three million people. Yet the origin of pandemic remains uncertain: The political agendas of governments and scientists have generated thick clouds of obfuscation, which the mainstream press seems helpless to dispel.

In what follows I will sort through the available scientific facts, which hold many clues as to what happened, and provide readers with the evidence to make their own judgments. I will then try to assess the complex issue of blame, which starts with, but extends far beyond, the government of China.

By the end of this article, you may have learned a lot about the molecular biology of viruses. I will try to keep this process as painless as possible. But the science cannot be avoided because for now, and probably for a long time hence, it offers the only sure thread through the maze...

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-...-box-at-wuhan/

Then read:

https://humansarefree.com/2021/06/as...the-world.html


Viola!

I didn’t read Wade’s article when you posted this. If you’d put a link in your post like you did this time I might have. Anyway he did make me think that the probability this escaped from the Wuhan lab is greater than 50% - see previous page of this thread. And yes it’s very possible the virus was a product of gain of function research.

There have also been a couple of articles in the Wall Street journal published over the last month. One looked in detail at U.S. intelligence that indicated 3 researchers at the Wuhan Institute fell ill with a COVID or flu like illness in November, 2019 and were treated at a hospital. The other said the closest known relative of COVID 19, collected from the bat cave where miners exposed to bat guano probably died from a coronavirus infection, was present at the Wuhan lab. Finally people have been speculating the virus may have been modified, on purpose or accidentally, by combining the DNA or RNA of a coronavirus with another virus in a test tube. This recombinant virus wouldn’t have tell tale signs of human intervention, unlike genetic engineering apparently usually does.

I’m reserving judgement on your second link. The writer is reputedly a political hack, despite his resume.

[rexdutchman]

Look up even 201 ,, suspicious at best

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I didn’t read Wade’s article when you posted this. If you’d put a link in your post like you did this time I might have...

But then, how would we know if your search engine was censoring the news?!? I certainly provided more than enough info to easily find the article at the top of the heap from a credible search engine. Though, let's be honest, I would guesstimate the odds at maybe 35% you would have clicked the link, if it was provided, based solely upon historical experience.

Originally Posted by Tiny

...I’m reserving judgement on your second link. The writer is reputedly a political hack, despite his resume.

Unclear to me, but which of the pedigrees screams hack to you?
Paul Elias Alexander, PhD, Former COVID Pandemic consultant/advisor to WHO-PAHO and former COVID pandemic advisor to Health and Human Services (HHS), United States; Parvez Dara, MD, MBA; Howard Tenenbaum, DDS, PhD.


Or are you tossing the hack card because they used actual and provable facts? That may make sense to the pole dancer at Snopes or the pretend, aka wanna-be journalist, at MediaBiasFactCheck. But in the wild, using facts from qualified sources by qualified professionals just doesn't seem hack-esque to moi mon ami. To be fair, they did provide some links to MSN and other LSM media sites, so I'll give you those as likely crap resources.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

HOAX

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

I'm not a virologist or epidemiologist and I have no actual proof of anything relating to the origin of the novel coronavirus. Just my opinion. And it is my opinion that occam's razor applies to this situation. The simplest explanation is usually the best one.

It doesn't sound like you took the time to read the Wade analysis or the shorter Quay/Muller piece or you would know that many of the proponents of the lab-leak hypothesis have also cited Occam's Razor.

It's more likely that random chance and a random mutation caused the spread of the novel coronavirus in humans rather than an accidental lab leak. I make this statement because of the millions of years of evolution that created viruses in the first place and the ability of said viruses to spread amongst anything that they can infect and use to multiply. All in an area so brimming with coronaviruses that they built a lab in that location called the Wuhan institute of Virology.

The two articles I asked you to read both explain why natural evolution/mutation is unlikely in this case, based on careful inspection of covid-19's genetic fingerprint along with other scientific clues.

Unless someone can actually link the virus to the Wuhan lab using dna sequencing or some kind of internal documentation from the lab I'll have trouble believing it came from them (because it's just not logical) and I certainly wouldn't want to use this as an excuse to punish the Chinese or their government. We have plenty of other reasons to do that without adding a worldwide pandemic (which affected the Chinese people as well) to the list.

There is already a "link" - i.e. a 96% genetic match - between covid-19 and other coronaviruses that were known to be kept and studied in Wuhan Lab research. Surely you have a better argument than "it's just not logical". Try to come up with something grounded in science. The lab-leak hypothesis appears quite logical to many scientists after reading the articles laying out the scientific evidence.

Again just my opinion. You are free to make your own judgement.

Of course, it's still considered opinion at this point. The question is, which opinion is better informed by the known facts and a preponderance of evidence? The only thing I agree with you on is we shouldn't be motivated by a desire to assign blame or punishment. But neither should we avoid the truth out of fear where the political chips may fall.