Twitter permabans the orange clown inciter-in-chief..

[TryWeakly]

Is it popcawn time yet ?

[boardman]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

trump wanted to erase history too. he lost fair and square but wanted to erase history and replace it with fantasy-that he actually won the election.

are the monuments confederate heroes? if so, it might be a good time to consider a reevaluation. everyone who fought for the confed was fighting to maintain slavery. what we did to those folks was heinous, and it hurt the black people in the U.S.
just compare the educational difference from those who grew up in the British or French system. I met many Africans in grad school, and they were top of the class.

We had zero A.A.s in the Ph. D. program. zero. is that coincidence?

At the political level, secession for many states was specifically about the rights of the states to decide their slave holding status.

On a much broader level thousands of men fought to preserve their states from invading armies who burned their towns and their farms(not plantations). Hell, many of them probably had no real clear idea of why it was happening. It's not like they all had cell phones and twitter accounts. If they even knew about the 3/5 compromise they probably didn't understand the unimaginable torment on both sides to agree to such a horrible solution in order to bring a country into being. They fought and died with valor thinking they were simply preserving the right of self determination that was given to them by the founders.
Anyone who breaks down the Civil War to an issue of slavery only willfully ignores all the other social, economic and historic issues that were also a part of it. Slavery was one issue but not the only issue.

To say that everyone who fought on the side of the confederacy was complicit in the cause of slavery is about as dumb as saying everyone who showed up in DC was there to storm the Capitol or every Muslim is a terrorist. It is however, a common tactic of the left to package any and all opposition into a neat bundle and put a label on it like RACIST.

The emancipation proclamation was not about freeing slaves or it wouldn't have applied to just the 10 states still in rebellion at the time but all the slave holding states including union border states. No, it was a severe economic sanction meant to bring those states to their knees by immediately and permanently freeing any slave who could make it to Union territory. Since, at the time, the Union controlled large portions of territory within the Confederacy it was a quicker and less arduous journey than say Harriet Tubman's underground railroad. In some cases it was as simple as running across a field.

Even Lincoln didn't believe the war was about ending slavery. The war was about preserving the Union. Ending slavery was the quickest means to an end.

Executive Mansion,
Washington, August 22, 1862.
Hon. Horace Greeley:
Dear Sir.
I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.
As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.
I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.
Yours,
A. Lincoln.

Shall we erase that letter from history as well?
Because it certainly doesn't fit in with the popular narrative of today.

[boardman]

Furthermore,
People of color are being held back by themselves and their own far more than anyone else and it's because of power.

All you have to do is read a little about LBJ and the CVA to know the truth...The CVA wasn't about equal rights... for the Democrat party it was about pandering to a particular vote.
There are those in the party who work hard to convince the minorities that they are working to save them when what they are really doing is working hard to keep them under their"protection" or they will endure even more suffering.

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by CryptKicker

So just to keep it straight you would rather us be in a war in Afghanistan instead of taking care of our own interests here in the US? Not talking Trump or Biden politics with this question so don't go there. Interested in your true opinion about us being the world's traffic cop and not fixing issues in the US instead.

i agree that working on the U.S. is super important. but what trump did in Afghanistan was inexcusable.

He's got all this leverage over the Toliban because we have total control over if and when we pull our troops. and bargaining from a position of strength, he gave away the farm.

what the toliban are doing now is assassinating women, intellectuals, government officials, etc etc. and instead of demanding that that conduct end before the u.s. even considers leaving, instead he threw the afghan government under the bus, making a deal with the toliban: no americans killed through May, we remove all troops.

basically trump took 19 years of american blood and treasure and flushed it down the toilet. we are now in a worse spot than on sept 12, 2001. the toliban "drove" america out and now its open season on women, educated people, etc.

there's a separate question whether we should have invaded afghanistan in the first place, but i think we had to.

trump gave away the farm and got nothing in return imo.

and now Biden has to figure out what to do with this clusterfuck. he has literally no good options now. i think he should rip up trump's hosing of a deal and start over, and make it a 3-party agreement as trump should have done in the 1st place.

btw, good post Boardman.

[CryptKicker]

As I knew you couldn't actually answer the question without bringing prejudicous political thought in it.

You might find this interesting:

Afghanistan War | History, Combatants, Facts, & Timeline | Britannica
https://www.britannica.com/event/Afghanistan-War

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by CryptKicker

As I knew you couldn't actually answer the question without bringing prejudicous political thought in it.

You might find this interesting:

Afghanistan War | History, Combatants, Facts, & Timeline | Britannica
https://www.britannica.com/event/Afghanistan-War

i'll have a look at the Brittanica article. i know there's a long and complicated backstory.

Crypt i already said there is no left and right, just good policy and bad policy. trump got suckered, or maybe he just doesn't care. either way, what he did there, imo, was just bad policy. if clinton had done the same, i would say the exact same thing about her.

[boardman]

What the Taliban are doing is the same fucking thing every other tribe has done for the last 7 centuries. They get some kind of power whether it's political, religious or even geographic and they start fighting, killing and dying because dying in the name of their cause is a perfect death. Centuries ago they fought over trade routes. Nothing changes in Afghanistan except the name of the tribes.

It took the Soviets 10 years to figure out that you can't win there. We still haven't as a country but Trump knew it before he ever announced he was running.

Afghanistan is a shit hole that isn't worth fighting over. Never has been. What did we give up? A shit hole that's what.
I'm not interested in holding on to a shit hole. They can certainly have it back.

Good Game guys, you win, here's your shit hole back. Buh Bye.


If we have a legitimate target we have the capability of finding and precisely neutralizing it without any significant collateral damage and without boots on the ground.

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by boardman

What the Taliban are doing is the same fucking thing every other tribe has done for the last 7 centuries. They get some kind of power whether it's political, religious or even geographic and they start fighting, killing and dying because dying in the name of their cause is a perfect death. Centuries ago they fought over trade routes. Nothing changes in Afghanistan except the name of the tribes.

It took the Soviets 10 years to figure out that you can't win there. We still haven't as a country but Trump knew it before he ever announced he was running.

Afghanistan is a shit hole that isn't worth fighting over. Never has been. What did we give up? A shit hole that's what.
I'm not interested in holding on to a shit hole. They can certainly have it back.

Good Game guys, you win, here's your shit hole back. Buh Bye.


If we have a legitimate target we have the capability of finding and precisely neutralizing it without any significant collateral damage and without boots on the ground.

in retrospect, do you think the invasion was a mistake?

[Russ38]

For shitholes like Afghanistan, there is only one “Solution”.....Lock down our own borders (as Trump had done brilliantly the past 4 years) and kill the culture....Fuck’em.....

[boardman]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

in retrospect, do you think the invasion was a mistake?

Retrospect? Hell, I thought it was a mistake at the time for the reaaon I stated above. Soviets vs Mujahideen. We had 1 target. That didn't require tens of thousands of troops to take care of. One seal team did the job.
I think every conflict we've been in since 1945 has been a mistake with the possible exception of the first Gulf War but that ended up being a mistake because we didn't have the nerve to finish the job.
We should go to war with one of two ends as a possible outcome. Annihilation or total capitulation. Anything less is waste of our most precious national treasure and a political cop out. If we don't have the stomach to win in totality then we need to stay the fuck out.
The US has become a dysfunctional family. We can't solve our internal problems. We compensate by trying to be the problem solver for the rest of the world so that we can feel better about ourselves.
Trump understood this because he isn't a politician.

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by Russ38

For shitholes like Afghanistan, there is only one “Solution”.....Lock down our own borders (as Trump had done brilliantly the past 4 years) and kill the culture....Fuck’em.....

what's funny is that almost all the 9-11 terrorists were..saudis, not afghans. can someone remind me again why the saudis are our bffs? it's not like the crown prince didn't order that an american journalist-critical of the saudis-be executed and chopped up into little bits by a saudi orthopedic surgeon, while his fiancee waited out front of the saudi embassy for his return. and the way they treat women-like the toliban-is just..wonderful.

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by boardman

Retrospect? Hell, I thought it was a mistake at the time for the reaaon I stated above. Soviets vs Mujahideen. We had 1 target. That didn't require tens of thousands of troops to take care of. One seal team did the job.
I think every conflict we've been in since 1945 has been a mistake with the possible exception of the first Gulf War but that ended up being a mistake because we didn't have the nerve to finish the job.
We should go to war with one of two ends as a possible outcome. Annihilation or total capitulation. Anything less is waste of our most precious national treasure and a political cop out. If we don't have the stomach to win in totality then we need to stay the fuck out.
The US has become a dysfunctional family. We can't solve our internal problems. We compensate by trying to be the problem solver for the rest of the world so that we can feel better about ourselves.
Trump understood this because he isn't a politician.

well at least you're consistent. iraq 2 was a disaster from day 1 and i said so. i supported the afghan war, but it appears bin ladin was in pakistan, not afghanistan. that has me lol.

back to trump. and the chickens come home to roost. total shocker..

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_6..._recirculation

[boardman]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

well at least you're consistent. iraq 2 was a disaster from day 1 and i said so. i supported the afghan war, but it appears bin ladin was in pakistan, not afghanistan. that has me lol.

back to trump. and the chickens come home to roost. total shocker..

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_6..._recirculation

I don't blame Trump. Many of the elites in the Republican Party never supported Trump and others only did for political clout that ended up being worth nothing. When it came down to nut cutting they threwTrump under the bus. Now, less than two months into a new administration they are realizing how good they had it and want to use Mr Mean Tweets for their gain.
Trump was a hit at CPAC. Rona McDaniel needs to grow a pair and get the Rinos on board or pull their support. The RNC needs to tell anyone not supporting an America First agenda that they will let those seats go to Democrats in 2022 before supporting their reelection. If she doesn't unify the party we'll soon see another Tea Party type movement within the party and that kind of division isn't healthy. You don't see moderate Democrats pulling the party back to the center. They fall in line for the most part and stay on point.

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by boardman

I don't blame Trump. Many of the elites in the Republican Party never supported Trump and others only did for political clout that ended up being worth nothing. When it came down to nut cutting they threwTrump under the bus. Now, less than two months into a new administration they are realizing how good they had it and want to use Mr Mean Tweets for their gain.
Trump was a hit at CPAC. Rona McDaniel needs to grow a pair and get the Rinos on board or pull their support. The RNC needs to tell anyone not supporting an America First agenda that they will let those seats go to Democrats in 2022 before supporting their reelection. If she doesn't unify the party we'll soon see another Tea Party type movement within the party and that kind of division isn't healthy. You don't see moderate Democrats pulling the party back to the center. They fall in line for the most part and stay on point.

i get a big kick out of anyone at the RNC who expects that Trump will lift a finger to help the GOP for the 2022 midterms. team player and trump aren't synonyms, they're antonyms..

b4 it was "i am the state." now it's "i am the party." that makes me lol..

[Russ38]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

what's funny is that almost all the 9-11 terrorists were..saudis, not afghans. can someone remind me again why the saudis are our bffs? it's not like the crown prince didn't order that an american journalist-critical of the saudis-be executed and chopped up into little bits by a saudi orthopedic surgeon, while his fiancee waited out front of the saudi embassy for his return. and the way they treat women-like the toliban-is just..wonderful.

^^^^^ “American” journalist?
It’s all radical Islam bullshit.....remember, kill the culture.....you’ll never change these animals.....

Exactly why the policies Trump put in place that made us “energy independent” should be written in stone......