So You Want to "Arm" Teachers?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

You just made my point ... again!

If you were correct then the Austin ISD would have no rounds in their chamber and biometric trigger guards.

If a person cannot retain their weapon from being snatched ... they have no business having a weapon in their possession. Period!

There are no weapons taken into jails and prisons, because those responsible for the safety of EVERYONE inside the jail or prison recognize that the ONLY WAY TO KEEP IT SAFE is to NOT HAVE ANY FIREARMS INSIDE. It's rather simple. Unless of course, someone is trying to advance an agenda. That is also why the legislatures and Congress create "Gun Free Zones" with exceptions to LE, both local, state, and Federal and a select few individuals like Judges.

LE officers are instructed and trained on weapon retention, and they aren't even allowed to carry them into Jails and Prisons.

TCOLE (Texas):
Course No. 2047 Officer Survival/Weapon Retention

But you want to allow an untrained teacher to carry one into a school with children inside????

You have now injected a new "block" of instruction in the Education Curriculum for want-a-be teachers. It's called:

Teacher Survival/Weapon Retention

The mere fact of your suggestions of a "trigger guard" PROVES they shouldn't be in the schools with teachers.

And despite that "extensive training", cops still have their weapons taken away from them! So, why the fuck shouldn't every measure to reduce that risk in a classroom be taken?

Beaverton police officer whose gun was taken from him named in court records

Court records identify the Beaverton police officer who lost control of his department-issued gun Friday during an altercation with an 18-year-old man inside City Hall.

(Oregon)

Investigators Exclusive: How often do cops lose their guns or have them stolen?

17 New jersey state police troopers have lost track of their weapons in the past eight years.

(ABC)

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

And despite that "extensive training", cops still have their weapons taken away from them! So, why the fuck shouldn't every measure to reduce that risk in a classroom be taken?

How many "cops" are there in the United States? And just THINK!

That cop had WEAPONS RETENTION TRAINING.

Take "every measure" to protect the weapons you wish to inject into the classrooms of America.

Does the "biometric reader" determine if the teacher's fingerprint is being applied by force while two other students are holding him or her down and pressing his or her finger onto the pad to unlock the "biometric TRIGGER GUARD"?

When the teacher's classroom door opens and a person with an AR15 walks into the room by the time he/she locates her firearm and tries to press a finger on the pad ... 2-3 rounds have already hit the teacher.

That's why cops don't use biometric guards on their duty weapons and keep a round in the chamber.

And that's also why weapons are kept out of jails and prisons.

And your "stats" on cops just continue to prove it further .....

.. how many of those "cops" lost their firearms in a classroom full of students ... with 100's in the hall outside the classroom?

Or did they pawn them and claim they were "lost"?

The SF ILLEGAL ALIEN killed the woman with a "lost" firearm!

So, why the fuck shouldn't every measure to reduce that risk in a classroom be taken?

Because the school is responsible for all the lives in the school building and being responsible is not adding firearms into the mix in the hands of people with NO ADEQUATE TRAINING or EXPERIENCE IN HANDLING FIREARMS IN A LIVE-ACTIVE SHOOTER EVENT.

Have you ever carried a firearm with a trigger lock on it on duty?
Have you ever carried a firearm with no round in the chamber on duty?

You think you have more training than the average cop with retention?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

How many "cops" are there in the United States? And just THINK!

That cop had WEAPONS RETENTION TRAINING.

Take "every measure" to protect the weapons you wish to inject into the classrooms of America.

Does the "biometric reader" determine if the teacher's fingerprint is being applied by force while two other students are holding him or her down and pressing his or her finger onto the pad to unlock the "biometric TRIGGER GUARD"?

When the teacher's classroom door opens and a person with an AR15 walks into the room by the time he/she locates her firearm and tries to press a finger on the pad ... 2-3 rounds have already hit the teacher. And what happened at Normandy in 1944? Yeah, maybe the first guy off the ramp was shot and killed, but the second, third or tenth guy got the job done. Whereas, had there been nobody with a weapon, they all would have been slaughtered. The second, third, fourth etc., teacher WILL HAVE THE TIME to disengage a biometric trigger safety. And if an alert administrative staff, via a security camera system, sees an armed individual on campus, an announcement would alert ALL teachers to what was happening, and ALL armed teachers would have the time to disengage a biometric trigger safety.

.

[LexusLover]

And what happened at Normandy in 1944? Yeah, maybe the first guy off the ramp was shot and killed, but the second, third or tenth guy got the job done. Whereas, had there been nobody with a weapon, they all would have been slaughtered. The second, third, fourth etc., teacher WILL HAVE THE TIME to disengage a biometric trigger safety. And if an alert administrative staff, via a security camera system, sees an armed individual on campus, an announcement would alert ALL teachers to what was happening, and ALL armed teachers would have the time to disengage a biometric trigger safety.

Amazing. Absolutely amazing!

Let me guess: You're a teacher with a CHL!

So using the LC example ... you are willing to sacrifice a teacher or two and some students to arm teachers to handle an intruder into the school with a firearm ... even though FOUR DEPUTIES one with 30-years experience wouldn't!



Nice! Really nice! (Sarcasm alert!).

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Amazing. Absolutely amazing!

Let me guess: You're a teacher with a CHL!

So using the LC example ... you are willing to sacrifice a teacher or two and some students to arm teachers to handle an intruder into the school with a firearm ... even though FOUR DEPUTIES one with 30-years experience wouldn't!



Nice! Really nice! (Sarcasm alert!).

17 teachers and students were already "sacrificed" ... because the only gun that stopped the shooter from killing more was the one he was using when it jammed.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

17 teachers and students were already "sacrificed" ... because the only gun that stopped the shooter from killing more was the one he was using when it jammed.

And had there been SECURITY at the door of the building guarded by well-trained LE officers ... all 17 would be alive today and he would either be in custody with his firearms confiscated or dead and his firearms confiscated.

But you want to play "wild-wild-West" in schools full of children!

Is that for your ego ... or just for the sake of a debate?

I certainly hope the latter.

And since his weapon "jammed" I guess it's a good thing he wasn't able to pick up a dead/wounded teacher's pistol with the biometric trigger guard unlocked and continue killing people!!!!

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

And had there been SECURITY at the door of the building guarded by well-trained LE officers ... all 17 would be alive today and he would either be in custody with his firearms confiscated or dead and his firearms confiscated.

But you want to play "wild-wild-West" in schools full of children!

Is that for your ego ... or just for the sake of a debate?

I certainly hope the latter.

And since his weapon "jammed" I guess it's a good thing he wasn't able to pick up a dead/wounded teacher's pistol with the biometric trigger guard unlocked and continue killing people!!!!

In this instance, that would be "buildingS" with multiple "doorS" ... more doorS than a half-dozen security guards could cover. Ideally, each student could be afforded the protection of his/her own armed security guard, but realistically, at some point there is a trade-off recognizing what is economically feasible.

[MT Pockets]

Originally Posted by grean

Your premise is basically that you believe we stand zero chance of victory and should accept an illegitimate government to rule over us?

No I am only trying to get few a folks to realize that your ability to "rise up" has been gone for years. And if one was to extrapolate they would understand just as the Government has successfully regulated your right to not have the same arsenal as they have, they have the right to ban the AR15 as well. If you notice I posted a quote from someone that had the contention that of all the arms banned the AR15 should one of the few that is not. To me the answer would be for states to actually form a militia and then they could choose the weapons they use. There is not one formal militia in the united states. As for accepting an illegitimate government, no. We need to change the balance. But it has to done by the way it should be. The NRA does not represent the people. They represent the Manufacturers. take a look the first mission statement they had. They were literally for regulations and registry of weapons. Then the money took over.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

In this instance, that would be "buildingS" with multiple "doorS" ... more doorS than a half-dozen security guards could cover. Ideally, each student could be afforded the protection of his/her own armed security guard, but realistically, at some point there is a trade-off recognizing what is economically feasible.

And your "point" .... weekly I pass through "buildings" with multiple doors, but I'm only allowed through one of them as I pass through a "SCREENING AREA" .... armed with officers!

In some instances I have an identification that allows me to bypass baggage and scanning of my body, in other instances a less intrusive baggage search with light scanning almost a pro forma so those who must undergo a more stringent examination don't get irritated. (I've been waived through at points outside of this country when meeting someone who knows me and is known to the security people.)

If you can't figure out how to shut doors so they can't be opened from the outside, then I can refer you to some folks who know how! The schools know contractors who do that, because I've been in buildings and schools that have them. It's not space science. They are all over our airports, government buildings, sports venues, and concert halls. WE DO NOT ARM ushers, flight attendants, concessionaires, and cashiers with FIREARMS as a FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE if at ALL!

So, you've decided that Man puts a door in the side of a building and only GOD can seal it to prevent ingress and egress. Or do you believe that if Man puts a door in a wall then Man can SEAL IT?

On top of believing that a certain level of "collateral damage" to fellow teachers and students is an acceptable risk so you can feel "macho" and swagger around with a paper weight hung to your hip!

You're getting weaker by the moment. Why?

To justify YOU CARRYING YOUR WEAPON INSIDE?

Your mentality is what cost lives at Las Vegas, et al, and now Florida.

Columbine as two decades ago ... where have you been?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

And your "point" .... weekly I pass through "buildings" with multiple doors, but I'm only allowed through one of them as I pass through a "SCREENING AREA" .... armed with officers!

So, you've decided that Man puts a door in the side of a building and only GOD can seal it to prevent ingress and egress. Or do you believe that if Man puts a door in a wall then Man can SEAL IT?

You're getting weaker by the moment. Why?

To justify YOU CARRYING YOUR WEAPON INSIDE?

Reckon you don't have a full size football field with adjacent parking lot, basketball court and quarter mile outdoor track with bleachers, etc., beyond your security screening that student athletes use all day long each and everyday.

[grean]

Originally Posted by MT Pockets

No I am only trying to get few a folks to realize that your ability to "rise up" has been gone for years. And if one was to extrapolate they would understand just as the Government has successfully regulated your right to not have the same arsenal as they have, they have the right to ban the AR15 as well. If you notice I posted a quote from someone that had the contention that of all the arms banned the AR15 should one of the few that is not. To me the answer would be for states to actually form a militia and then they could choose the weapons they use. There is not one formal militia in the united states. As for accepting an illegitimate government, no. We need to change the balance. But it has to done by the way it should be. The NRA does not represent the people. They represent the Manufacturers. take a look the first mission statement they had. They were literally for regulations and registry of weapons. Then the money took over.

If you believe our ability to "rise up", as you put it has been gone for years, then how is your premise not exactly what I said?

The notion that you think our right to bear arms is in any way tied to formal militia with any governing control is simply false

Militias actually were initially under the control of the local government prior to 1774. When the Monarch attempted to disarm American militias under local government control, private militias formed. The minute men are one famous example. They fought the first battles of the Revolution.

Think of the first clause as meaning that should a group of people so choose to form a militia....


It is ridiculous, considering the founders recent experience with the stamp crisis that caused the Monarch to attempt disarming the citizens and for that matter, tip the public sentiment to go to war, that the founders would ever tie that right to a government controlled militia.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Reckon you don't have a full size football field with adjacent parking lot, basketball court and quarter mile outdoor track with bleachers, etc., beyond your security screening that student athletes use all day long each and everyday.

I have! But also I've had the entire community/neighborhood surrounding the building in which I must enter, including the adjacent parking facility from which I must walk to the SINGLE SECURE ENTRANCE just like 95% of the other folks who enter including LE.

As for your next silly obstacle to common sense security ...

I have rarely been concerned about some person in jogging shorts and shirt with tennis on sneaking into the building and slaughtering students, staff, and/or coworkers. Are you?

I've also seen prisons with no walls and no fences with athletic field and exercise track with a field house for restrooms and changing. BTW: Police officers know how to patrol properties and open land....better than teachers!

But I guess that explains those "scary" fences around the perimeter of school grounds that provide a SECURE area for the athletes to engage in their appointed activities. How about electrifying the coiled razor wire on top, if you are really worried and fry the little turds who are trying to sneak in and slaughter the students. Your buddy Pelosi says keep the grass mowed!

Some people say they look like prisons. So does Fort Knox!

But it's that way because something PRECIOUS is inside and needs to be protected from intrusion by evil people. Like I said: It ain't space science. I find this ACCEPTABLE:



You find this ACCEPTABLE:



We all have our level of "tolerance" .... but personally I'd rather negotiate the gates and fences than clean up the mess you find agreeable .... and I've done both, my friend! Have you?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

I have! But also I've had the entire community/neighborhood surrounding the building in which I must enter, including the adjacent parking facility from which I must walk to the SINGLE SECURE ENTRANCE just like 95% of the other folks who enter including LE.

As for your next silly obstacle to common sense security ...

I have rarely been concerned about some person in jogging shorts and shirt with tennis on sneaking into the building and slaughtering students, staff, and/or coworkers. Are you? Carrying a gym bag? Which is precisely how the Florida shooter carried the weapon onto school property and why he only used 10-round magazines. See "15:17 to Paris".

I've also seen prisons with no walls and no fences with athletic field and exercise track with a field house for restrooms and changing. BTW: Police officers know how to patrol properties and open land....better than teachers!

But I guess that explains those "scary" fences around the perimeter of school grounds that provide a SECURE area for the athletes to engage in their appointed activities. How about electrifying the coiled razor wire on top, if you are really worried and fry the little turds who are trying to sneak in and slaughter the students. Your buddy Pelosi says keep the grass mowed!

Some people say they look like prisons. So does Fort Knox!

But it's that way because something PRECIOUS is inside and needs to be protected from intrusion by evil people. Like I said: It ain't space science.

.

[LexusLover]

Carrying a gym bag? Which is precisely how the Florida shooter carried the weapon onto school property and why he only used 10-round magazines. See "15:17 to Paris".

That person gets checked at security check point and has to enter THE DOOR!

The Florida school didn't have one. You just made my point again!

Had the school established a secure point to enter the school with armed guards present and exposed the tender ones to the traumatic experience of armed police officers supervising the screening of students coming to learn they wouldn't have had the horrendous experience of seeing their friends and fellow students and teachers slaughtered in pools of blood in room and halls ...

.. an experience that is ACCEPTABLE TO YOU!



Not me ... because when they become adults there will be "secure check points"!

As opposed to ill-trained gunslingers swaggering around looking for the OK corral.

[grean]

IB & LL,

I thought you both were for getting rid of gun free zones. Am I wrong?