What is sin and mans relation to God?

[essence]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

I've told you ad nausium I don't believe the New Testament is a good translation; I believe the historic truth about Saul not the "Christian" one; and I do not believe Jesus is a God. Move along.

So, tell me, which translation of the New Testament is the good one?

Which reputable document gives a better historical truth about Paul/Jesus than the New Testament?

I have actually bought Freeman's book, and another one of his on early church history, and find it full of subjective postulations, but haven't read them far enough to find these alternatives (to the New Testament) historical records you mention.

Whether you believe Jesus is God or not is of course your choice, but please stop insulting us by expecting us to believe your other half baked fantasies which you are completely unable to justify.

[CuteOldGuy]

Essence, do you believe Jesus is God?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Who voted Jesus as a God. There's no getting around that. The Arians thought Jesus was subordinate to God and therefore not a God. Again, this isn't semantics. Just because you follow the teachings of one of the greatest thinkers the world has ever seen doesn't mean that you think he is a God.

Not arguing the divinity of Christ: just pointing out that this was an instance of Christian on Christian violence. It seems the Germans preferred Arianism to Catholicism because the kings – not the Church – retained the real power.

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

The Crusades were started when the Christians, sent by the Pope, attacked Jerusalem because of culture and religion. That's a jehad. Period. They didn't attack for any reason other than ideology and money. Sorry, that's starting a war because people don't agree with your and your Gods. That's Christians killing people in the name of their Gods. Again, this isn't semantics. . . Remember, Christendom drew first blood. Don't start nuttin' won't be nuttin' comes to mind. . . . No, Christians attacked because of religious reasons, and the money religion brings, and nothing more. It was a jehad, and that's my point. It was never the target of military value. Christendom started the Crusades. That's not semantics either. It's just a fact.

The key word, which you've already acknowledeged, is “recapture” – as in "react" or "respond". The Crusades were not “proactive” in nature; they were “reactive”: i.e., the Christian West’s reaction to Islamic intrusion.

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

I still don't get the connection these men have to the discussion, but nevertheless, these mother fuckers should they have chosen could have with their dieing breath asked for salvation and been granted everlasting life in heaven according to Santa Clause.

The crimes perpetrated by atheistic communists, such as Lenin, Stalin and Mao, are some of the “yard-sticks” you are ignoring as you choose to measure Christianity's crimes with your “altruistic-ruler”. ijs

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Essence, do you believe Jesus is God?

Amen.

@ IB, I'm on my phone and waiting on someone so I don't have time to do your post justice. Manana though.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Amen.

@ IB, I'm on my phone and waiting on someone so I don't have time to do your post justice. Manana though.

Use a lot of scatological references, O. He'll cum!

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Use a lot of scatological references, O. He'll cum!

Yet another turd-tongued soliloquy from the shit-for-brains golem, Assup the jackass: the product of scat -- the animated amalgamation of shit and piss.

[Yssup Rider]

I think you need more fiber...

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

I think you need more fiber...

Assup the jackass, the turd-tongued, shit-for-brains golem: the product of scat . . . the animated amalgamation of shit and piss, has posted still another brain-fart.

[Yssup Rider]

WHEN CORPY TALKS SHIT, HE REALLY TALKS SHIT! looks like you found a partner in slime!

So are you the master or the puppet?

I mean, which one of you is the pitcher or catcher?

It is the beginning of spring training after all.

Does he whimper when you smear yourself with his stool sample? Do you?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

WHEN CORPY TALKS SHIT, HE REALLY TALKS SHIT! looks like you found a partner in slime!

So are you the master or the puppet?

I mean, which one of you is the pitcher or catcher?

It is the beginning of spring training after all.

Does he whimper when you smear yourself with his stool sample? Do you?

Assup the jackass, the turd-tongued, shit-for-brains golem: the product of scat . . . the animated amalgamation of shit and piss, has posted still another one of his brain-farts.

[JCM800]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

I think you need more fiber...

[bojulay]

More OH rebuttal that is mostly babble, what else is new.

Jews and the ten tribes of Israel fought wars against each other
after the two separated into the northern and southern kingdoms.
They also turned to idol worship and the worship of other Gods
at different times, so what does that prove? That the Jewish
religion is full of shit. If we used your logic again.

What is this historic proof about Saul that you talk about, the diluted
opinions of a few biased writers.

You can find many writings that claim that the Jews are evil incarnate,
so what, proves nothing, just stupid opinion.

So Jesus was one of the greatest thinkers you say. Then you can't
separate the man from what he said.

So what did he say.

I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the father except
by me.

I am the door, if any man tries to enter by any other way he is a thief
and a robber.

He also claimed to be a forgiver of sins.

Just three examples from as you say one of the greatest thinkers.

Which is your favorite greatest thinking statement out of the three?

[essence]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Essence, do you believe Jesus is God?

I've no idea, probably not, depends a bit what you think God is.

[let me explain - the question is not 'does god exist' but 'what is the nature of god'. If you say 'god' is something beyond us and the universe, in some wishy washy way, then I would tend to say god exists, in the pascalian sense. But if you say god is an entity with which you can have a personal relationship, and jesus was the physical embodiment of god, then I would have a harder time.

So, to me, the real question is 'what kind of god do you believe in'.

The word 'god' is simply an identifier for something, a name for something. If you say 'look at all the beauty and love in the world, that shows there is a god' then I would say 'you are using the word god as an identifier for all the goodness in the world'.

I tend to be quite philosophical about the concept of 'exists', and I also take the meaning of my nickname 'essence' quite seriously.

Anpther way of asking the same question is to say 'what is the essence of god' or 'what is the essence of Jesus', and it might be that their essences have very similar characteristics. Whether that makes them the same thing is, again, a question of philosophy.].

[essence]

ps but what my beliefs are about god and jesus in this discussion is irrelevant, what you can be sure about is that I do not believe in stupid arguments which get facts incorrect and are not representative of the best of human intellect, or at least attempts at intelligance.

I am not defending jesus or paul, I am correcting nonsensical fatuous arguments.

[Guest050715-1]

I'm through trying to school you. You obviously are a true believer that has issues with reading comprehension. For the last time - the benevelant tenants of Christianity are wonderful. I just don't believe the myth that man created making jesus and his lesser sybling the Holy Ghost are Gods. Unfortunately, I'm way to busy today to disect IB's post, but I wish you luck with your personal quesst to convert the sinnners. Peace to you fellow traveler.