Dallas Police Officer goes home to the wrong apartment, kills man inside !!

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by rexdutchman

So far Fact known she shot at a large shadow, from 12-15 feet away .

we know the distance, but we only have the Cop's story regarding the shadowy figure, I believe. I haven't heard even the slightest insinuation that he may have been armed, even from the Cop's affidavit.

seems to me she has 2 items a Jury might give her favor.

1. she is a Police Officer, who by reason of her position may be given benefit of doubt

2. the Castle Doctrine, if metered out to the letter of the law, might save her, if her affidavit tale holds up (I don't think it will)

[grean]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

we know the distance, but we only have the Cop's story regarding the shadowy figure, I believe. I haven't heard even the slightest insinuation that he may have been armed, even from the Cop's affidavit.

seems to me she has 2 items a Jury might give her favor.

1. she is a Police Officer, who by reason of her position may be given benefit of doubt

2. the Castle Doctrine, if metered out to the letter of the law, might save her, if her affidavit tale holds up (I don't think it will)

May be wrong but wouldn't the litmus on the castle doctrine, in this case, be whether another reasonable person would have mistaken another apartment for their own?

I really hope the fact that she didn't know where the hell she was and because of that shot a guy in his own home invalidates any credibility she had as a cop.

[grean]

Originally Posted by B Three

Totally agree, but...

I know you know that damned Castle Doctrine gives people the impression that shooting first and asking questions later is the right course of action. I wish they would require something like a “reasonable perception of a credible threat.”

Do you think that would help, leaving it to the jury decide if the actions of the shooter were reasonable, TTH? I’ve long thought that without an imminent threat of violence, there should be a duty to retreat.

The castle doctrine isn't at fault here. If someone is in your home and they are not supposed to be, they are a credible threat. If you wait to see, it may be too late.

If you are in your house, where are you supposed to retreat?

Look how fast the recent shooting in LA went south. The officer is very lucky to be alive. A blink of an eye and you don't get to regret your mistake.

If some one is in your home, they should be treated as a deadly threat.

The problem here was simply she was a fucking dumbass.

[grean]

Originally Posted by Scribe

...not trying to turn this from a "Racist" discussion to a "Sexist" discussion - but I don't think it would have happened at all with a male cop and a female tenant.

It would have gone:

M: "What the fuck are you doing in my apartment?" (no gun drawn)
...lights click on, look around...

M: "Holy shit Ma'am, I'm sorry - I'm in the wrong apartment"

Queue up porn jingle bwam bwam bam bwam wam.....

W: "Thats quite alright officer. I've been bad. You better cuff me."

M: " In that case, put your hands on the counter and spread your legs."


Stop watching cop porn Srcibe!

[Guest083119]

Originally Posted by grean

The castle doctrine isn't at fault here. If someone is in your home and they are not supposed to be, they are a credible threat. If you wait to see, it may be too late.

If you are in your house, where are you supposed to retreat?

Look how fast the recent shooting in LA went south. The officer is very lucky to be alive. A blink of an eye and you don't get to regret your mistake.

If some one is in your home, they should be treated as a deadly threat.

The problem here was simply she was a fucking dumbass.

I already said if I wake up and see some dude in my house, I’m going to assume he’s there to seriously harm me and all bets are off. I also said the on two occasions, I’ve walked into my house in the course of a burglary and I immediately exited and called the 911. That’s what most reasonable people do every day because that’s the best way to preserve your own safety.

Something similar happened to my neighbor. A drunk guy tried to enter her house thinking it was his girlfriend’s. He didn’t get in the door but she freaked and ran out the back to her garage and got the fuck out of there while calling 911.

Another friend in the nicest neighborhood in town had parked her car outside of her home’s gate because of renovations. She got inside the next morning and found a guy in her back seat. He had been drunk and she accidentally left her door unlocked and he crawled in. She screamed and ran back into the house. Grabbed her husband and they called 911.

Both cases would have been tragic if those people did not choose to retreat.

I do agree the cop in the case at hand was a total idiot.

One more thing, I’m well aware things can go terribly wrong in an instant, but that doesn’t mean that people should shoot unarmed people, especially when all that can be seen is a shadowy figure. I would rather wait a split second with the knowledge it could get me shot or attacked than live with the fact that I killed an innocent person over a stupid mistake of fact.

[Analeese]

I think the video of her pacing in the hallway while calling 911 says alot ...so many what ifs I agree

Just think that video showing her reaction to the aftermath says something

[grean]

Originally Posted by B Three

One more thing, I’m well aware things can go terribly wrong in an instant, but that doesn’t mean that people should shoot unarmed people, especially when all that can be seen is a shadowy figure. I would rather wait a split second with the knowledge it could get me shot or attacked than live with the fact that I killed an innocent person over a stupid mistake of fact.

That's your personal decision, and I respect that. However, as you admit, it could get you killed.

I don't think a law should be on the books requiring to retreat that prevents those who do not wish to take that chance from protecting themselves.

[rexdutchman]

credible threat is the issue , and that ties into the mental state she was in at the time. She was "shooting blind" into a building thank god no one else was killed.

[Scribe]

Originally Posted by grean

Queue up porn jingle bwam bwam bam bwam wam.....

W: "Thats quite alright officer. I've been bad. You better cuff me."

M: " In that case, put your hands on the counter and spread your legs."


Stop watching cop porn Srcibe!

ROFLMAO... you got me grean

[Scribe]

Originally Posted by B Three

I already said if I wake up and see some dude in my house, I’m going to assume he’s there to seriously harm me and all bets are off. I also said the on two occasions, I’ve walked into my house in the course of a burglary and I immediately exited and called the 911. That’s what most reasonable people do every day because that’s the best way to preserve your own safety.

Something similar happened to my neighbor. A drunk guy tried to enter her house thinking it was his girlfriend’s. He didn’t get in the door but she freaked and ran out the back to her garage and got the fuck out of there while calling 911.

Another friend in the nicest neighborhood in town had parked her car outside of her home’s gate because of renovations. She got inside the next morning and found a guy in her back seat. He had been drunk and she accidentally left her door unlocked and he crawled in. She screamed and ran back into the house. Grabbed her husband and they called 911.

Both cases would have been tragic if those people did not choose to retreat.

I do agree the cop in the case at hand was a total idiot.

One more thing, I’m well aware things can go terribly wrong in an instant, but that doesn’t mean that people should shoot unarmed people, especially when all that can be seen is a shadowy figure. I would rather wait a split second with the knowledge it could get me shot or attacked than live with the fact that I killed an innocent person over a stupid mistake of fact.

Bx3, I'm with you except... "You call 911, and they send?"

She's ALREADY a cop... they don't send a dozen copes to everything, and she's a duty officer in a situation confronting (what - mistakenly was, but) appeared to be a suspect in the act.

Officers, don't say "Oh! There's one bad guy! Run away! Run Away!"... that's the Knights from Monty Python's Holy Grail you're thinking of... Under you're theory, a doctor arrives on the scene of an accident and there's someone dying... they will call for help, but they don't say "in the mean time, I'll do nothing until others arrive".

In cop mode, she still was obliged to do what she did...

The weird thing to me was the buildings proximity to the Police Station - I would think that to be one of the safest building in Dallas... but burglars, crack-heads, felons, etc... don't think straight... so, If someone is robbing an apartment (right there), I would jump to ' "They are already a probable dangerous threat".

As for the mistaken floor... except for the parking garage at DFW where they have reminder paintings of "which flower was it?", I've gone to the wrong door in apartments, hotels, etc... even my own. Maybe your apartment has all different floors... but #2234 and #3234 sit exactly at the same spot and look identical where I live... and could easily be confused.

[slowmover]

In cop mode, she still was obliged to do what she did...


Wrong

[TinMan]

I have a hard time believing department procedure would call for a cop to enter a darkened apartment when at that point no lives were in danger, and she had time to back off and call for backup.

[billyjames]

How would a cop know if there was or wasn’t anyone in danger in this instance? They don’t know, unless the homeowner is hiding in a closet on the phone with 911.. She fucked up.. I guess the investigation will determine how bad, and why.. She also could’ve gone up there to confront him about loud music or some other stuff that was bothering her, since she lived directly below him.. we will find out when they figure it out.

[Scribe]

Originally Posted by billyjames

How would a cop know if there was or wasn’t anyone in danger in this instance? They don’t know, unless the homeowner is hiding in a closet on the phone with 911.. She fucked up.. I guess the investigation will determine how bad, and why.. She also could’ve gone up there to confront him about loud music or some other stuff that was bothering her, since she lived directly below him.. we will find out when they figure it out.

+100 billy

...remember the situation. She thought it was HER apartment... this wasn't someone saying "Hey officer, I saw a guy break in and he might still be in there!".

You go home and find your apartment door ajar. I know it's dumb, but the first thing you do is go "WTF? Did I forget to lock the door?" and you open it and walk in.

Also, while I read her "justification" of "the events and how they transpired"... I'm really not hearing her or anyone saying "Oh, Because of this she should be acquitted!"...

It's reading like she is saying "This is what happened. Yes, it DID happen. Yes, I know I killed this man. And Yes, I expect charges to be filed against me for this."

She can't "charge herself"... it's up to the D.A. to do that. They decide (or a Grand Jury) on the charges, and it goes to court.

It reads as manslaughter... not murder. I'm sure she will be charged, and found guilty.

but:
Manslaughter in Texas is a second degree felony. This charge will typically carry a sentence of between two and twenty years in a state prison and/or a fine of no more than $10,000.

and...
Murder in Texas is a first degree felony. This charge will typically carry a sentence of between five and 99 years in a state prison and/or a fine of no more than $10,000. At the sentencing stage of the defendant's trial, the defendant can raise the issue of having committed the crime in the "heat of passion" arising from an adequate cause.

so, even if it's Manslaughter she can get 20 years, and even if it's murder she can get 5.

...my bet, they will give "Manslaughter with 2-5 years".

murder

n. the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way), and with no legal excuse or authority. In those clear circumstances, this is first degree murder. By statute many states make killings in which there is torture, movement of the person (kidnapping) before the killing, as an incident to another crime (as during a hold-up or rape), and the death of a police officer or prison guard all first degree murders with or without premeditation, and with malice presumed. Second degree murder is such a killing without premeditation, as in the heat of passion or in a sudden quarrel or fight. Malice in second degree murder may be implied from a death due to the reckless lack of concern for the life others (such as firing a gun into a crowd, or bashing someone with any deadly weapon). Depending on the circumstances and state laws, murder in the first or second degree may be chargeable to a person who did not actually kill, but was involved in a crime with a partner who actually did the killing or someone died as the result of the crime. (Example: In a liquor store stick-up in which the clerk shoots back at the hold-up man and kills a bystander, the armed robber can be convicted of at least second degree murder. To be murder the victim must die within a year of the attack. Death of an unborn child who is "quick" (fetus is moving) can be murder, provided there was premeditation, malice, and no legal authority. Thus, abortion is not murder under the law. (Example: Jack Violent shoots his pregnant girlfriend, killing the fetus). Manslaughter, both voluntary and involuntary, lacks the element of malice aforethought.

[Scribe]

Originally Posted by slowmover

In cop mode, she still was obliged to do what she did...


Wrong

lol... really?
Ok, then if your position is correct, it should hold water if we "flip" it...

She is a cop.
After work she goes home to THE CORRECT apartment...
The door is ajar.

You're saying in that situation she shouldn't have entered her own apartment - she should have IMMEDIATELY called for back-up! (Because she's a female cop too afraid to enter her own apartment?)
The police arrive.. .and NOBODY is there!!!, so...

"Hey OFFICER BITCH, your DOOR'S open... better call for BACK UP again!"
(every day at work for years and years?)