Mandate Health Insurance?

[JD Barleycorn]

Forget arguing with them. They suffer from a preexisting condition known as brain deadedness. You can give them facts from a think tank, facts from an expert, facts from your own experience and what do they say; you're biased. Facts are biased especially if you don't like those facts. I wonder how much they would argue if a doctor (an expert) told them they had cancer (something they won't like too much I suspect). Would the ignore what the doctor said because the doctor is biased.

I have a question for Liberal Devil. I caught this story on the Internet and I wanted your response. Actress Tilda Swinton talked about becoming a mother. She said she was about five weeks past due and she was becoming afraid of being "sectioned". This is where the healthcare authorities forceably give a woman a C-section. I couldn't believe this.
http://www.contactmusic.com/news/til...sarean_1285587
Comment?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by blue3122

The chilling effect will be on drug research also. With limited (no) upside, drug companies will drop most experimental research.

Good, all they have done is create a nation of addicts.

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Forget arguing with them. They suffer from a preexisting condition known as brain deadedness. You can give them facts from a think tank, facts from an expert, facts from your own experience and what do they say; you're biased. Facts are biased especially if you don't like those facts.?

You have experts from both sides. You believe wtf you want and the other side believes wtf they want.

Please tell me you are not to ignorant to see this. That is how it works.

Now if you really want to understand why that is, read "The Believing Brain'' and you will understand how two people can see the exact same thing and come to two different conclusions.

[Grifter]

@Doove and WTF with regards to your position about wrecked cars and the government paying for it and how that relates to our current state of health care. It really sounds to me like we need to stop requiring hospitals to treat people who cant pay for it. Again doesnt medicaid cover the poor already, isnt that the point of it. They just have to go sign up for it dont they?

[timpage]

Liberaldevil nails it...and aptly illustrates one of the reasons why I could never be a repuke: Opposition to the idea that all human beings are entitled to basic health services. Basic humanity...of which the loonies here are bereft.

I'm not going to waste time arguing the conceptual issue of whether we should have universal healthcare, nobody is going to change their mind. The entire argument has been poisoned by the bots with lies, fabrications, and gross exaggerations.

What I would like to do is have someone riddle me this: why the opposition to the mandate? The crazies, of course, oppose it all. But, this seems to be the thing that most middle-of-the-roaders oppose. Do you not understand that the $115 billion in health care costs that was incurred by the uninsured gets passed back to us...via increases in our premiums? We end up paying for it. Why not engage in the effort to make them pay for it?

And, by the way.....you're all a bunch of selfish pathetic bastards for opposing something that is designed to do such a good thing: ensure basic, adequate healthcare for all in the United States. Something that virtually every other Western democracy already provides. Along with a lot of the "commie" governments that you so love to bash. Spend 10 minutes thinking about the concept. It's a good thing. If you boneheads would be willing to accept that, and offer viable alternatives to the plan/legislation as currently proposed, something truly good could come out of it. Instead, you use it as a political tool to bash Obama, attack the illegals, tell lies about death panels, squawk and quack about socialism, and generally make shit up that is designed to do one thing: damage Obama politically.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by timpage

. Do you not understand that the $115 billion in health care costs that was incurred by the uninsured gets passed back to us...via increases in our premiums? We end up paying for it. Why not engage in the effort to make them pay for it?

.

This is the point they do not understand. They will never address this elephant in the room. Boggles the mind.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Grifter

@. . Again doesnt medicaid cover the poor already, isnt that the point of it. They just have to go sign up for it dont they?

Who do you think pays for Medicaid? How do you think Hospitals make money? If their costs are not covered by Medicaid, they charge more to insurance companies to make up the difference. That means you are already paying for the poor. But in a much more inefficient way.

Originally Posted by Grifter

@. It really sounds to me like we need to stop requiring hospitals to treat people who cant pay for it. ?

We would have to take this part out of the Hippocratic oath:
I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

[Grifter]

Tim you make a valid point about the cost being passed on to us.

Do you understand that I dont oppose everyone having care available to them but I dont want the legal precedent set that the government can mandate that you buy a product from a private company. I get that your fine with it because its for a good reason but what happens when this is applied to another item or service and again we are compelled to purchase something because its for the greater good. Its a power I dont want the government to be able to exercise at all. Have you considered what this will look like when the Republicans are in charge and deciding who gets what? Between the government being able to make you buy products from other private citizens and the ability of the President to issue death warrants for US citizens without due process are both giant changes in the direction of the US government and they should scare the shit out of you.

[Grifter]

@WTF show me the part about pricing in the Hippocratic Oath.

[essence]

Tim and WTF, thank you for reminding me that not all Americans are selfish fucked up bastards.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Grifter

@WTF show me the part about pricing in the Hippocratic Oath.

in·firm

   /ɪnˈfɜrm/ Show Spelled[in-furm] Show IPA
adjective 1. feeble or weak in body or health, especially because of age; ailing.

Originally Posted by WTF

We would have to take this part out of the Hippocratic oath:
I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by essence

Tim and WTF, thank you for reminding me that not all Americans are selfish fucked up bastards.

They are just ignorant on the subject matter.

Although we Americans have proven to want something for nothing in all phases of society. Dem or Repub. It matters not. We are starting to become a society that does not want to pay for things they want. The Repubs will not pay for war and the Dems have not paid for Social Benifits....no wait our Social Contract is still in the black! Ok Repubs, pony up...

[Grifter]

Im not opposed to providing care Im not good with the government mandating that we buy a product from a private company. Thats my objection to this legislation.

[Whirlaway]

What WTF and others don't understand is that expanding benefits to the uninsured will result in rationing for those of us who already have insurance.

Costs for everyone will go up; quality and access for most will go down.

The poor and uninsured already have access to the best medical system in the world (for free); but WTF and other liberals are ok with it's destruction, all in the name of their phony compassion.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by timpage

What I would like to do is have someone riddle me this: why the opposition to the mandate? The crazies, of course, oppose it all. But, this seems to be the thing that most middle-of-the-roaders oppose. Do you not understand that the $115 billion in health care costs that was incurred by the uninsured gets passed back to us...via increases in our premiums? We end up paying for it. Why not engage in the effort to make them pay for it?

And, by the way.....you're all a bunch of selfish pathetic bastards for opposing something that is designed to do such a good thing: ensure basic, adequate healthcare for all in the United States. Something that virtually every other Western democracy already provides. Along with a lot of the "commie" governments that you so love to bash. Spend 10 minutes thinking about the concept. It's a good thing. If you boneheads would be willing to accept that, and offer viable alternatives to the plan/legislation as currently proposed, something truly good could come out of it. Instead, you use it as a political tool to bash Obama, attack the illegals, tell lies about death panels, squawk and quack about socialism, and generally make shit up that is designed to do one thing: damage Obama politically.

The opposition to the mandate is because it gives power to the government over the people, not for the people and fundamentally changes our form of government, in as simple terms as I can put it. I think the real question is why Obama did not create legislation or an ammendment that eliminated private health insurance companies and created a new tax to pay for all Americans healthcare?

Do some research on insurance company's stock prices (UHC is a good example) and you will start to get the picture of what is really going on here. The wealthy and educated have already made enough money off of insurance company stock to cover their healthcare insurance premiums for the rest of their lives. So, who do you really think is going to have to pay for this in the long run? I am not saying I am either, but it didn't really take a genious to figure out their prices were going to skyrocket under this new law.

Nothing wrong with being compassionate and wanting healthcare for everyone in the country (I do, but not this way), but I wouldn't be so quick to think that Obama and the Democrats had good intentions from the onset, after all it was a Republican idea.

[Af-Freakin]

Originally Posted by WTF

This is the point they do not understand. They will never address this elephant in the room. Boggles the mind.

damn right. tell the right wing chattel 2 check this out for the costs that get passed on.

http://www.urban.org/publications/901419.html


with all the pond scum (algae) on the right, r cars will b fueled 4 decades. LOL!