Lets talk about Batman: The Dark Knight Rises

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

What President Obama was doing with his speech was simply reminding people of certain fundamentals that they would rather conveniently forget.

Running a government takes money.

The roads, bridges, schools, parks, running water, airports and countless other things are built by governments for the benefit of the people.

The people who are determined enough to build their own business, did not do it on their own. They had the support of the government who laid the foundation for them to grow their business.

Everyone needs to pay their fair share in order for the entire government apparatus to function.

. . . What is there to argue about?

The argument is over what's fair and reasonable. Obama says rich people don't pay enough in income taxes; that's nonsense. The top one percent pay 37%. The top five percent pay 59%. The top ten percent pay 70%. The bottom fifty percent pay 2%. The so called rich already carry the most of the weight. Obama is a demagogue that exploits his constituent's ignorance and jealousy.

By making the income tax severely progressive, you destroy the incentive to work and invest. In the long run everyone is harmed, because such a system destroys wealth.

Who Pays Income Taxes and How Much?

Tax Year 2009

Percentiles Ranked by AGI

AGI Threshold on Percentiles

Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

Top 1%

$343,927
36.73
Top 5%
$154,643
58.66
Top 10%
$112,124
70.47
Top 25%
$66,193
87.30
Top 50%
$32,396
97.75
Bottom 50%
<$32,396
2.25

Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income
Source: Internal Revenue Service

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

[Fast Gunn]

I will grant you have a very valid argument based solely on the figures you present.

I will have to do a little more research on the subject and check your figures, but some rich folks, like Warren Buffet, have actually complained that they pay too little taxes compared to others who make much less.

However, I would say that the real problem is that some of the very rich and unscrupulous people are always finding creative new ways to avoid paying taxes, but still benefit from all the services that honest tax payers have provided.

I have worked with people who actually crow publicly about some new way they found to hide their money from the IRS and avoided paying taxes they would otherwise owe.

Of course, that helps them, but it hurts the government who has been helping them make that money in the first place.

People like Mitt Romney have made millions, but then they surreptitiously open Swiss Bank accounts to hide their money.

. . . Why do you suppose Romney has not disclosed his income tax reports?

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

I will grant you have a very valid argument based on the figures you present.

I will have to do a little more research on the subject and check your figures.

However, I would say that the real problem is that some of the very rich people are always finding creative new ways to avoid paying taxes, but still benefit from all the services that honest tax payers have provided.

I have worked with people who actually crow about some new way they found to hide their money from the IRS and avoided paying taxes they would otherwise owe.

People like Mitt Romney have made millions, but then they surreptitiously open Swiss Bank accounts to hide their money.

. . . Why do you suppose Romney has not disclosed his income tax reports?

Romney is not hiding his money in foreign banks. Wealthy people, including several in Obama's cabinet, put their money in foreign banks in order get better interest rates. There is nothing illegal or unethical about it. That's all Romney has done.

I think Romney is reluctant to release additional tax returns because Obama's people will claim irregularites when none exist. Taxes are enormously complex. Anyone's tax returns can be scrutinized and be made to appear fraudulent it that's the intention of the reviewer.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I am not even going to try to explain because you are not ready to hear it. You are the enemy. Not a mastermind or a leader but just a couple of the useful idiots that they need to draw attention away from greater things.

In other words you can't.

Why can't you tell the truth?

[Fast Gunn]

Well, once again you have surprised me with your lucid arguments.

Every now and then you fall of the wagon and appear incoherent, but then you suddenly return like a totally different person.

How do you do that?

However, anyone who is running for the highest office should disclose his tax returns and then be prepared to defend them if necessary.

. . . Only if you have no plausible defense for not paying your fair share of taxes then you must resort to nondisclosure to avoid the embarrassment.

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Romney is not hiding his money in foreign banks. Wealthy people, including several in Obama's cabinet, put their money in foreign banks in order get better interest rates. There is nothing illegal or unethical about it. That's all Romney has done.

I think Romney is reluctant to release additional tax returns because Obama's people will claim irregularites when none exist. Taxes are enormously complex. Anyone's tax returns can be scrutinized and be made to appear fraudulent it that's the intention of the reviewer.