Why Government Compassion Doesn't Work

[CuteOldGuy]

Tough words. What do you think?

"To the student of history, as contrasted with the doctrinaire positivistic reformer, it seems that people are decent, when they are decent, chiefly out of habit. They fall into habits of decent conduct by religious instruction, by settled family life, by assuming private responsibilities, by the old incentives of private gain and advancement in rewards for decent conduct. When the individual seems to run no risks: when food, shelter, and even comforts are guaranteed by the state, no matter what one's conduct may be; when the state arrogates to itself a complex of responsibilities that formerly were undertaken by church, family, voluntary association, and the private person - why, then the old habits of decency are weakened, and the police constable and the Borstal are required to maintain precariously by compulsion what once was taken for granted in Britain and elsewhere."

- Russel Kirk, 'The Sword of Imagination'

I think he nails it. What say you?

[joe bloe]

Kirk had no use for libertarians.

From Wikipedia.com:

In a polemic essay, Kirk (quoting T. S. Eliot) called libertarians "chirping sectaries," adding that they and conservatives have nothing in common (despite his early correspondence with the libertarian Paterson). He called the libertarian movement "an ideological clique forever splitting into sects still smaller and odder, but rarely conjugating." He said a line of division exists between believers in "some sort of transcendent moral order" and "utilitarians admitting no transcendent sanctions for conduct." He included libertarians in the latter category.[8][9] Kirk, therefore, questioned the "fusionism" between libertarians and traditional conservatives that marked much of post-World War II conservatism in the United States.[10]

[WTF]

I think joe blow nailed it...conservatives will fuck a libertarian over quicker than a Liberal and with half the Compassion!

[CuteOldGuy]

Ok. What about what HE SAID? I don't recall mentioning anything about him being a Libertarian. I was intrigued by what he had to say.

So Kirk wasn't Libertarian. So? While I identify with Libertarians, it doesn't mean that I only listen to libertarians, and only learn from libertarians. You people have to make sure that anything you post only comes from and/or agrees with whatever the label is you have taken for yourself. There are brilliant thinkers in (almost) all parts of the political spectrum.

I may not agree with everything Kirk says, but that doesn't mean I have to disagree with EVERYTHING he says. Just because he's not a "libertarian." Hell, I've agreed with some statements Obama has made. If Joe Biden ever makes a coherent statement, I'll consider it.

I think we're starting to see the problem here. Party/Ideology identification. Everything my guy says is good. Everything your guy says is evil. Bullshit. That's kind of why I hammer on Obama so much. Poster here act like the man has never had a bowel movement. That, and I think their responses are funnier than the conservatives.

I think Kirk makes a brilliant point in this quote. I was wondering what others thought. Maybe I was expecting too much.

[joe bloe]

I think the fundamental problem with the state providing social welfare, not connected to any sort of work, is that it destroys self respect. If a person takes public assiatance when he does not need it, when he is able to provide for his own needs, at some level that person knows he's stealing. The government will not tell him he's a thief. His neighbors may not tell him his behavior is dishonorable, but at some level, he knows his behavior is immoral.

When the government gives social welfare to the undeserving, it poisons the culture. The anger the poor feel towards the rich is fueled by the guiltly feelings produced by receiving undeserved welfare benefits. Expressing gratitude to the productive class is humiliating. So gratitude is replaced by hatred, as a way of dealing with feelings of guilt, for accepting undeserved benefits.

[CuteOldGuy]

I think that was the point Kirk was trying to make. I totally agree with both of you.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Ok. What about what HE SAID? I don't recall mentioning anything about him being a Libertarian. I was intrigued by what he had to say.

So Kirk wasn't Libertarian. So? While I identify with Libertarians, it doesn't mean that I only listen to libertarians, and only learn from libertarians. You people have to make sure that anything you post only comes from and/or agrees with whatever the label is you have taken for yourself. There are brilliant thinkers in (almost) all parts of the political spectrum.

I may not agree with everything Kirk says, but that doesn't mean I have to disagree with EVERYTHING he says. Just because he's not a "libertarian." Hell, I've agreed with some statements Obama has made. If Joe Biden ever makes a coherent statement, I'll consider it.

I think we're starting to see the problem here. Party/Ideology identification. Everything my guy says is good. Everything your guy says is evil. Bullshit. That's kind of why I hammer on Obama so much. Poster here act like the man has never had a bowel movement. That, and I think their responses are funnier than the conservatives.

I think Kirk makes a brilliant point in this quote. I was wondering what others thought. Maybe I was expecting too much.

Good lord COG, don't have a cow. I just thought you might find the quote interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zANvYB93u2g

[CuteOldGuy]

You're excused. Here's your cow back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOI-SDYGviM