Shyster john, advice please!

[cinderbella]

Okay, I know you are probably sick to death of this question but here goes;

If it is legal to advertise yourself as an escort only and compensation is inferred for time only, then how does one get around this typical setup scenario?

Girl has her ad on backpage escorts because she is not getting enough inquiries via P411 and ecccie. Girl does not post an indecent photo, just something indiscrete. She can either refer on her bp ad to look her up on eccie or p411, or she can post a statement reminding that rate is for time only and nothing to be inferred.
She can either tell a caller that rate will be discussed after screening is performed or she can be daring, not screen and agree to see caller if he promises not to discuss fee/service and that the fee to see particular caller will be X.00 for her time only and that nothing is to be inferred. Perhaps she asks caller for information to make a google search to make sure caller's employment info or personal detail matches up and caller is not pushy or acting evasive.

I ask this because I notice that from what I have heard about sting ops is that the girl is contacted off bp and undercover law enforcement tells her he has seen provider x and provider y and girl stupidly does not verify. Girl shows up in her car at hotel usually, but I am sure there are some where undercover LE shows up at her incall. Usually it's the hotel scenero. Undercover LE sticks his head inside her car and asks her rate. She states X.00 and immediately undercover LE asks something she will probably say no to such as: Do you perform a&*$? (word omitted). She says "No", and undercover LE says something to the effect: "Well X.OO is alot but I guess so this time". She is then motioned over to lobby and arrested, etc... Or she walks into hotel room, undercover LE says, "Your donation is here on the dresser, and steps away from her while saying over his shoulder, "All I want is a little h&%# (word ommited). She doesn't answer and is arrested.

If girl is uncomfortable, decides potential client is mentioning rate and service too quickly and slyly, so she may say that she is not interested and tries to leave, which I am certain in the state of Texas or Louisiana that undercover LE is not going to play fair and give her the benefit of the doubt and arrest her so as not to lose out on a potential bust. I guess what I am getting at is what if LE set up a phony info via google that if she did try to do some kind of screen he will check out and she avoids mentioning or answering above mentioned questions, is it common for LE to go to lengths to entrap a provider by purposely providing false searchable info and disregarding her attempt to not incriminate herself? I have a sinking feeling that the answer is yes and yes but had to ask anyway. Have you heard of this occuring?

Forgive me if you are sick to death of this question, searched this area and did not find it so had to ask, thanks in advance.

[ShysterJon]

A short caveat: My analysis in this post is limited to Texas state law only. Laws vary from state-to-state. To understand what the law is in your local jurisdiction, please consult a competent attorney where you live.

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Your question is really three questions. I'll answer them one at a time.

1. Provider ad disclaimers.

Originally Posted by cinderbella

If it is legal to advertise yourself as an escort only and compensation is inferred for time only, then how does one get around this typical setup scenario?

Your question isn't very clear, but I think you're asking whether a disclaimer in a provider's ad can prevent her from being convicted or even charged with prostitution. My answer is, 'OF COURSE NOT!' Your question inspired me to finally try to organize all the random thoughts on the topic that have been swirling in my tiny brain for years into one thread, which is here:

"Disclaimers in Provider Ads -- Do They Negate Criminal Liability?"

2. UC busts without mention of a sex act.

Originally Posted by cinderbella

I ask this because I notice that from what I have heard about sting ops is that the girl is contacted off bp and undercover law enforcement tells her he has seen provider x and provider y and girl stupidly does not verify. Girl shows up in her car at hotel usually, but I am sure there are some where undercover LE shows up at her incall. Usually it's the hotel scenero. Undercover LE sticks his head inside her car and asks her rate. She states X.00 and immediately undercover LE asks something she will probably say no to such as: Do you perform a&*$? (word omitted). She says "No", and undercover LE says something to the effect: "Well X.OO is alot but I guess so this time". She is then motioned over to lobby and arrested, etc... Or she walks into hotel room, undercover LE says, "Your donation is here on the dresser, and steps away from her while saying over his shoulder, "All I want is a little h&%# (word ommited). She doesn't answer and is arrested.

I've handled a LOT of prostitution cases, and I can count on one hand the number where the provider or hobbyist didn't mention a sex act. The SOP in 95% of the cases I've handled involved an agreement on an amount and an offer or acceptance regarding a named sex act, nearly always oral or anal sex.

Let's review. Under Texas law, a person can commit the offense of prostitution in any of four different ways:

(1) making an offer to engage in sexual conduct for a fee,
(2) accepting an offer to engage in sexual conduct for a fee,
(3) soliciting a person in a public place to engage in sexual conduct for a fee, or
(4) engaging in sexual conduct for a fee.

The core of your question seems to be: Can LE arrest a provider where there's no mention of a sex act? Well, yes. As I've written many times before, a cop can arrest you for anything, even picking your feet in Poughkeepsie. But being arrested on suspicion of having committed an offense and being convicted after a trial on the offense are two quite different things.

In your example, the fact that there was an ad, an in-person meeting between the provider and the UC cop, and a discussion of an hourly rate does not prove up the crime of prostitution under Texas state law because there wasn't an offer or acceptance regarding sexual conduct, which is required for liability under the statute.

One final word on this topic: While it's true that mention of a sex act was part of nearly all the cases I've handled, at the same time, in most of the cases in which I've represented a provider, the client told me there was NO mention of a sex act. However, once I obtained the audio tape, videotape, or offense report that showed such a mention, my provider-client's response nearly always was, "Oh, yeah! I remember that now!" Haha.

3. Fake information posted on the internet by LE

Originally Posted by cinderbella

I guess what I am getting at is what if LE set up a phony info via google that if she did try to do some kind of screen he will check out and she avoids mentioning or answering above mentioned questions, is it common for LE to go to lengths to entrap a provider by purposely providing false searchable info and disregarding her attempt to not incriminate herself? I have a sinking feeling that the answer is yes and yes but had to ask anyway. Have you heard of this occuring?

There's been a number of threads lately where providers have "screened by Google" and then have gotten themselves busted. To me, the question isn't "Can the cops put fake shit on the internet?," because the answer to this question seems obvious to me -- "OF COURSE!" Rather, the question is "Why the fuck are you using Google to screen?"

To answer my own question, I sought out a volunteer provider who allowed me to hook her up to ShysterJon's Magic Brainwave Machine. The machine printed out the following:

"I know that prostitution is a crime and I can spend time in jail if I'm arrested. I also know it's a different kind of crime because of the stigma society associates with prostitution. So if I'm arrested, I may find it hard or impossible to get credit at a reasonable interest rate, go to the school of my choosing, or marry the man I want to.

Accordingly, I know I need to screen very carefully to avoid getting arrested. So to screen I think I'll use (next to an episode of the Rush Limbaugh Show) the most unreliable source of information ever conceived by the human mind -- THE INTERNET. YEAH!!! I'll screen by running the guy's info through Google!"

Who am I to question such lucidity of thought, being a mere lawyer? But my pea-brain tells me that perhaps a better way to screen would be to check with two established, well-known, Eccie-member providers.

[ck1942]

Interesting discussion above and I value Shyster's advice very much.

Cinder:

just an odd note or two regarding a few things you didn't ask, but which you (and other providers) may be displaying.

"Jurisdictions" and timing are several key elements in LE stings.

LE in many larger cities will pay a lot less attention to prostitution (lets be clear, that the ordinance/crime) on the internet and give much more close attention to activities on the "street" or in fixed locations, spas and studios because both locations often draw civilian complaints - "squeaky wheel gets the grease" syndrome.

LE in many smaller cities - say Tyler, TX - often pay a lot more attention to stuff on the 'net since these smaller cities won't tolerate street stuff or spa stuff for very long. Two weeks or less is my guesstimate. And, since smaller cities have fewer available rental (hotel and apartment) incall opportunities, my caution is magnified. Please see my pm.

"Timing is everything" syndrome. LE efforts usually increase during election seasons - especially local and state because LE wants to make the impression that LE is doing its job, and prostitution (stings on Johns, especially) will often make the nightly news or a prominent space in the local daily.

As SJ noted, doesn't matter if someone actually breaks the P laws.... arrests are always at the discretion of the cops and whatever results (bad publicity) are thought to diminish the hobby trade. In reality, imho, virtually any publicity or notoriety causes more hobby activity, not less, but that doesn't matter to those who are caught up in the courts.

Take care out there!

[Waldo P. Emerson-Jones]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

2. UC busts without mention of a sex act.

The core of your question seems to be: Can LE arrest a provider where there's no mention of a sex act? Well, yes. As I've written many times before, a cop can arrest you for anything, even picking your feet in Poughkeepsie. But being arrested on suspicion of having committed an offense and being convicted after a trial on the offense are two quite different things.

In your example, the fact that there was an ad, an in-person meeting between the provider and the UC cop, and a discussion of an hourly rate does not prove up the crime of prostitution under Texas state law because there wasn't an offer or acceptance regarding sexual conduct, which is required for liability under the statute.

Cinderbella, keep in mind that direct evidence is not required; circumstantial evidence can be enough to get you arrested and convicted. In other words, under the law, it's not necessary that you or LE specifically agree upon a sex act with one another if an offer or acceptance to commit a sex act for a fee can be inferred from the circumstances.

For example, let's imagine that your ad has language that you have a wild and erotic side, your clients always leave with a smile on their face, and that you guarantee I'll be satisfied with your services. Let's also imagine that your ad says see your reviews on eccie for more information and you have explicit eccie reviews. You show up at LE's hotel. After discussing and agreeing upon an hourly rate with the undercover, you tell LE to "get comfortable" and began to undress yourself. You take a condom out of your bag and place it on the nightstand. There's no explicit offer or acceptance of sex for fee, but I'm not confident in those circumstances that LE won't arrest you and that a jury won't convict you. There's a million different ways things could go that would either make a circumstantial case against you stronger or weaker.

Certainly, you can do and say things that make LE and the prosecution's job easier or harder. But if you're looking for some "magic bullet" approach that will keep you safe from arrest and/or conviction while still carrying on as an escort for non-LE clients, I don't think you'll find it. The best strategy is to avoid being in the same place with LE. The way to do that is to get and check references from known providers.

[ShysterJon]

Originally Posted by ck1942

In reality, imho, virtually any publicity or notoriety causes more hobby activity, not less, but that doesn't matter to those who are caught up in the courts.

I COMPLETELY agree with this statement and, in fact, wrote a professional article on this topic that I've discussed at CLE (continuing legal education) seminars around the state. (The article mentions prostitution stings as only one example of what's called "The Peltzman Effect" after University of Chicago economist Sam Peltzman, who argued in the 1980s that mandatory safety devices such as seat belts reduced the probability of harm to the driver if the car crashed, but that in turn would encourage people to drive more recklessly, causing more accidents, deaths, and injuries.) I only mention this because I know for a fact there are a number of Eccie members who are politicians. They troll for nookie here but publicly express moral outrage at prostitution.

[ck1942]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

I only mention this because I know for a fact there are a number of Eccie members who are politicians. They troll for nookie here but publicly express moral outrage at prostitution.

Don't overlook the preachers, pastors and very public "do gooders" who from their pulpit/platform rail against the hobby but who very frequently are in "intimate" contact with many of our ladies, and with bi- and T- providers, too.

[ShysterJon]

Yeah, you're dead on there. Not too many weeks pass without me seeing something on TV or in a newspaper that a public-figure client of mine has said or done, and I SMH thinking -- if people only knew the reality.

[Dharma]

Reading this I thought to myself, "if I had a quarter for every public figure/celebrity, preacher.." but then I laughed because I get a lot more than a quarter

On topic though, this is the kind of information we need. Thank you, gentlemen.