The Hobby Community

[rekcaSxT]

I agree and can play ball with that.

[atxbrad]

Good to have you here OldSarge.
While I agree with most of what you said I really wish people would stop beating a dead horse. Yes, there were some heated debates and there was some name calling and maybe somethings were said that were not within board rules...............BUT the community resolved and corrected the issues itself.

Everything calmed down, we almost moved those threads to page 2. People stopped talking about it.

Then we get a thread from GFE than opened the wound again and got people talking about disrespect, board rules, & polite and civil.

Everything calmed down, we almost moved those threads to page 2. People stopped talking about it.

Then we get this OldSarge thread that opened the wound again and got people talking about disrespect, board rules, & polite and civil.

While I believe that your intent is good, but threads like this will only feed the........................wel l you know.

Can we not just agree as a community that we can disagree and get past it. There are some really good threads in co-ed right now that we are negelecting just so we can read more crap about polite and civil. This board is for adults and I hope that we dont have to be reminded how to act like adults. Those that do have to be reminded shouldnt be here anyways.

Much respect to you OldSarge, not trying to stab you in the chest as you get back active on the board

[Bull149]

I did not detect any old wounds opened by old sarge y anyone thaty posted. I understood that he was just stating that he understood the meaning of the mission of eccie and was comitting himself to following it. He well written and therefore based upon what I have observed so far, he will earn much respect. It is good to see you here Sarge.

[ThatHarleyGuy]

Classy entrance, Top.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by OldSarge

.......I would even suggest that you can make any point you wish, as long as it is Polite and Civil (and truthful) and you will never be censored here.

So far......That is a concept that has been tested and proven to be the case........ So Far.....

Only time will tell if the board will follow that path or if it will drift off course..... As the community grows the ownership's oversight becomes diluted by the volume and local Mods and Admins take on more of the responsibility for the direction a community goes.... many of us came here from a board overly censured....

As someone else brought up, the recent "We are going to enforce some unwritten rules" thread and posts like this, came AFTER the community itself balanced things out and calmed down......

Many that had started to post and say a bit more seem to be holding back now...... I don't think any one thread could be timed worse than that one was.... I received more than one "Here we go again" message after that thread from folks thinking we are NOT going to be allowed to have a community guided forum...

We can all “agree to disagree” and we can do so in a manner so as not to be rude (no name-calling, no personal attacks).

A Politically correct statement but It's unfortunate that is not the case in actual reality...... We deal with many simple minded and egotistical personalities in this community... We deal with emotional misfits.... We deal with many that never finished high school much less attended a day of college..... We deal with people traumatized qand scarred by years of abuse... people that do not always think in a logical manner....

Many folks don't bother to read what someone has to say before firing back a response..... Many will not stop and give any thought before they fire back a response....... Some can't understand or comprehend the message at times.....

Nobel thoughts and concepts..... The Politically correct things to say but we will always have the "name callers" and less than civil posters that "attack the person" rather than attacking the concept....

I would bet a lot of folks get pointed trying to debate a subject with people like me......

There are plenty of people here with whom I may disagree. I am certain that there are some people here that disagree with me….. I have enjoyed many a debate in the past years, but have endeavored to do so in an agreeable manner.

I love a great debate.... I truly enjoy being challenged on concepts, thoughts, opinions, subjects,,etc..... It is unfortunate that some lack the ability to remain on a subject rather than taking the "low road" but heck... that's human nature...

When it comes to success in the hobby, I follow one basic rule: “Mutual Trust and Respect”. We providers and hobbyists do have shared intents, beliefs, resources, needs and risks. Some bear a greater burden in each of these areas; however we all have shared interests at times, as none of us are truly living in a vacuum.

If I do something that causes your ATF to go UTR for a while, you are affected. If I talk out of turn about personal info I gained in the hobby and word gets back to others, you may be affected. If I act out on the board, others will see it. None of us are in this alone. Each of us has an impact on other members and future members.

But where this community as well as others tend to have problems is not in what WAS said but in what wasn't......

If one does something that allows their ATF to stay public and active when they should be away and healing...... When someone KNOWS something gleaned from personal sources and doesn't speak out then the information doesn't get out and people may be affected in a negative manner..... If people REFUSE to act on the board and call other's on their actions then noone sees it and other's get continually hurt in the process.... None of us are in this alone. Each of us has an impact on other members and future members.

The ECCIE mission statement reads in part that “ECCIE is intended to be a safe haven for the responsible hobbyist and provider…” To me, this implies that membership carries a responsibility and a commitment to adhere to the simple standard.

To me it means that we all have a responsibility to share pertinent information no matter how controversial it may be so that others may have that information and make "informed" decisions that affect their safety and well being....

Most every community or group goes through a “storming and forming” process. That is, in the beginning, there are conflicts and confrontations (the storming). Through this storming and its ultimate resolution(s), the community forms a tighter bond (or in the opposite case, the community dissolves). Storming and Forming is natural and can be helpful. In a free-thinking group such as this, leadership, at times, must be like hearding cats. Some of us sit back and expect the moderators to “weigh in” on everything and to “referee” at all times. I would argue that the mods have their hands full and weigh in when needed, however, as community members, I believe we have the responsibility (we certainly have the right) to speak up when things are awry – to self-censure or self-correct, if you will.

That is a concept that was not in place on ASPD in recent years where a lot of us migrated from... Austin Forums have been incredibly repressed for many years due primarily, IMO, to leadership and improper influence allowed to certain members by that leadership...... It's been a long time since some of us have had the right to speak up....

We also have a responsibility to see the community flourish and grow. This means we have to retain new members and a responsibility to set the proper examples for them to follow, if not a responsibility to even mentor the newbies.

I have been away from the hobby community for 8 months. While I am pleased to see new virtual communities rise up where others have fallen, not everything I have read has been encouraging. The economy and the fall of others have taken a toll on the hobby, but more so on the side of the providers. The tone here at times has taken a toll as well.

My personal goal is to enjoy my time here and to be a positive influence on others.

I plan on doing so by following 3 rules:

1) Be polite and civil (and truthful)
2) Practice mutual trust and respect
3) To be more helpful than critical


I want to extend a “Howdy” to my old friends and welcome to the new ladies and gents.

I hope you find this post helpful.

Respectfully submitted,

OldSarge

An Excellent Post Sarge.....

I have been away from Public Posting for quite a while myself..... For a variety of reasons but mostly due to censorship and an unlevel playing field...

As I return to posting I make a few commitments myself....

1) to contribute reviews and share pertinent information which is what I believe drives these sites

2) to weigh in on all matters, that I feel people need to have alternative views presented to them on, in order to make more informed decisions.

3) to challenge opinions opposed to my own in a manner that will push the opposing side to justify their position and bring forth as many opinions as possible, no matter how controversial the subject, so that the community gets as much information as is available.

4) to present information or topics for discussion that pushes the envelope and requires thought to consider.

5) to air dirty laundry and call others on their bullshit when it's out there.

6) to share information and ideas as well as practices and techniques I've used to have safe and enjoyable experiences

7) to try to add some entertainment value when and where I can.

8) to stand in the way of and encourage others to stand in the way of those that would try to guide this forum back to being a personal playground and flirt site controlled and manipulated by a small clique of Austinites that censured and decided what we were allowed and not allowed to discuss.

A lot of what has has rocked this community lately has been due to a few fighting for that repressive, censured cliquish environment that some of us do not want to see in place here.

[Don T. Lukbak]

Originally Posted by Whispers

As someone else brought up, the recent "We are going to enforce some unwritten rules" thread and posts like this, came AFTER the community itself balanced things out and calmed down......

Many that had started to post and say a bit more seem to be holding back now...... I don't think any one thread could be timed worse than that one was.... I received more than one "Here we go again" message after that thread from folks thinking we are NOT going to be allowed to have a community guided forum...

Very true, Whispers. It seemed to me as if refugee members from the P were so conditioned to expect the iron fist of restraint that they went wild for a spell...and then, just when most - with only a handful of notable outliers and name-callers - realized they would have to restrain themselves...that's when the whip came down. Terrible timing!

Count me among the mutts who favor a light touch in the moderation. When moderators get a heavy hand there will be resentment and results contrary to the desired ones.

[Guest062716]

Well, who would have thought my first day on ECCIE would bring out such strong emotions.... thanks to all who have made me feel welcome!

To anyone who would challenge my motives or timing.... I would simply let my post speak for itself.... clearly, I feel that message is needed when we resort to calling the membership "simple minded" and "emotional misfits"..... frankly, I find it hard to listen at that point.



Respectfully submitted,

OldSarge

[Guest062610]

Originally Posted by Whispers

Many that had started to post and say a bit more seem to be holding back now...... I don't think any one thread could be timed worse than that one was.... I received more than one "Here we go again" message after that thread from folks thinking we are NOT going to be allowed to have a community guided forum...

It may seem that way to the dozen or people that have controlled the flow of information in the coed section but to the majority of the community it was a very welcome post as is this one.

It's not about the staff being "heavy handed" its about the forums being a welcome place for everyone to post in. As the staff becomes more comfortable with the wants and needs of the community we'll be doing our best to help moderate it accordingly. Nothing has really changed other than we're not going to allow people to bash others, make personal insults and be generally rude to other members.

This isn't a new concept Whispers and no one is trying to stifle conversations, disagreements or even down right arguments...but are going to make sure everyone plays fair.

Like most things for every person that pm's you saying "here we go again" we've received 30 "thank you's". Take it for what it's worth.

LAP

[Nibbles_n_Licksx]

Ummm... Aren't threads like this old already.
You know we are having some fun over here in this thread......
[ame="http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=23737"]Here are some fun questions for everyone to answer! - ECCIE-Escort Review Database[/ame]

*Just a thought*
~Kisses Jen

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by OldSarge

Well, who would have thought my first day on ECCIE would bring out such strong emotions....

Nothing emotional in my response.....

thanks to all who have made me feel welcome!

I think I stated that your post was excellent..... you write well and express yourself in a "politically correct manner"

To anyone who would challenge my motives or timing.... I would simply let my post speak for itself....

More than myself were referring to the timing of a different post and not necessarily yours.... Allthough as strong as your words are it does make other's want to respond which will certainly keep the debate alive.

clearly, I feel that message is needed when we resort to calling the membership "simple minded" and "emotional misfits"..... frankly, I find it hard to listen at that point.

I have higher expectations from you Sarge.....

This is a very good example of what causes a thread to spiral out of control.... You dislike something I say and spin it as an attack on the community rather than a statement regarding a small portion of the membership as it was made.

You insinuate in the phrasing of your quoting me that I find the membership to be simple minded emotional misfits..... That is not true..

What I stated was "We deal with many simple minded and egotistical personalities in this community... We deal with emotional misfits...."

I find the majority of people that post in the Austin Forums to be likable, respectable and informative guys and gals..... There are a lot that never post that I wish would.....

But I will stand by my statement that we do have a few that fall in the category I mentioned.

[Carl]

Well, I've been on the sidelines of the hobby for about a year, on a voluntary involuntary hiatus. There are pressing responsibilities that for all practical purposes keep my time and money otherwise engaged. I could hobby right now, but it would involve abandoning those responsibilities and that's just not going to happen. Even prior to that I was hobbying every month or two, sometimes even less frequently, for quite some time due to those same responsibilities before their level of commitment increased.

Over those last few years, as I was less involved and more of a spectator on the boards, I saw more and more of the elder statesmen and stateswomen drop off the boards. For some, life moved them on to a different phase in life. For a few, life ended. And for some others, they grew tired of a growing number of posts. Some were understandably naive posts by newbies or lurkers, many of whom were refugees of the Craig's List world. But this stepping back has given me some opportunities to observe and think.

Along with that influx of new blood on the hobbyist and provider side, also came a noticeable number of posters (male and female) that were coarse, short-tempered, argumentative and arrogant, maybe even a bit insecure and overcompensating by trying to talk big. That type doesn't take kindly to the sort of community peer correction offered by more senior board members or even mods. Their responses are usually along the lines of "Who the hell are you to tell me what to do? Do you know who I am?" Some were egotistical, competitive, alpha wolf (male and female) wanna-bes. Some were simple internet trolls. Some were street-smart and some were street-braindead. Some were gamers of systems and saw the boards as fresh meat, a new territory with new leads (I keep seeing Alec Baldwin in Glengarry Glen Ross saying "Coffee is for closers!"). Some were just selfish manipulators looking out only for themselves despite what they said to others privately or posted in public. Some came and left. Some came and stayed.

I'm probably looking at things with rose-colored glasses but back in the day, talking about 6-7 years ago or so on ASPD, the overall on-line community was smaller. More of us knew each other personally, even off the boards. The providers and hobbyists were a little more uniformly considerate.

I think part of it was that a number of the providers actually had real jobs or had recently lost real jobs in an earlier downturn. So, having the intelligence, self-control and skill sets to get and hold onto and do a job in the real world, they had the basic life skills to behave responsibly on and off the boards. Good to excellent TCB, good to excellent posts, few threads started or comments made on threads that came across as thinly veiled ads or pleas for attention. And when things got better for them they left the hobby. Not to point fingers at anyone in particular, but some of the current providers seem to have a mind-set similar to some strippers. They're not much for rules or regimentation or attention to detail, they need cash and they need it now and don't seem to particularly think ahead more than a few hours into the future. A hobbyist back in those days once said that every provider he had seen, from the girls running half hour specials to the HDHs shared two qualities: independence and spontaneity. Properly harnessed those qualities make for an excellent and exciting lover. Improperly harnessed, they can make a girl act stubbornly, defensively, erratically, selfishly, manipulatively, impulsively and self-destructively.

The hobbyists as a group also tended to come across as more thoughtful, educated and skilled in their posts. Maybe computer literacy was less common or the internet less popular or maybe it was the people most familiar with the net and likely to have broadband access used it a lot for work and brought a more calm and professional tone to the boards that they used on the internet as part of their real jobs.

Since those years, it's been less and less enjoyable to participate on the boards. I don't hobby near as much as I used to. Like I said, it's been about a year since the last time. The times I have hobbied, and may in the future, I seek out the gals I already know and trust and have stood the test of time. If I were to try and see someone new, I already know how to check them out on my own, backchannel. And if they were unwilling to see me, I already am secure in both feeling and knowing that it's their loss and not mine.

I am content to leave the community to its own devices. If it implodes under the weight of egos and agendas and the screwing over of each other, so be it. Go ahead. Kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, smarty-pantses. Once this becomes a wasteland and all the assholes move along to greener pastures, maybe eventually some folks will stick their heads up out of the wreckage and the cycle of nature will begin again. Like the dinosaurs giving way after the devastation of an asteroid impact to the age of mammals. Or the Roman Empire falling to the barbarians and the Dark Ages, but eventually the Renaissance came into the light.

But in the meantime, if everybody wants to play like this is a WWE SmackDown, let me get out of the way and grab a fucking soda and some damned popcorn and all y'all can go the fuck ahead.

[Guest010512-2]

I have a huge throbbing man crush on Carl.

[Tatonka]

Great post Sarge! Well stated and sincere.

Even better to have you here with us! Welcome