Coup de grâce

[Longermonger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmQo9...e_gdata_player

“With so much misinformation being fed into such an essential public debate as this one, I asked the Director of Central Intelligence, Leon Panetta, for the facts. And I received the following information:

“The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. We did not first learn from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed the real name of bin Laden’s courier, or his alias, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the man who ultimately enabled us to find bin Laden. The first mention of the name Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, as well as a description of him as an important member of Al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country. The United States did not conduct this detainee’s interrogation, nor did we render him to that country for the purpose of interrogation. We did not learn Abu Ahmed’s real name or alias as a result of waterboarding or any ‘enhanced interrogation technique’ used on a detainee in U.S. custody. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts, or an accurate description of his role in Al-Qaeda.

“In fact, not only did the use of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed not provide us with key leads on bin Laden’s courier, Abu Ahmed; it actually produced false and misleading information. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married, and ceased his role as an Al-Qaeda facilitator — which was not true, as we now know. All we learned about Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti through the use of waterboarding and other ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ against Khalid Sheik Mohammed was the confirmation of the already known fact that the courier existed and used an alias.

“I have sought further information from the staff of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and they confirm for me that, in fact, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee — information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s real role in Al-Qaeda and his true relationship to Osama bin Laden — was obtained through standard, non-coercive means, not through any ‘enhanced interrogation technique.’

“In short, it was not torture or cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of detainees that got us the major leads that ultimately enabled our intelligence community to find Osama bin Laden. I hope former Attorney General Mukasey will correct his misstatement. It’s important that he do so because we are again engaged in this important debate, with much at stake for America’s security and reputation. Each side should make its own case, but do so without making up its own facts.

[Longermonger]

You might know the guy who said that and why his opinion carries weight on this issue.

[Guest090920]

Wow, Lulz, where do you find this stuff? A better question is why do you waste your time looking for this dribble.

So this terrorist was waterboarded only 183 times?

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by Longermonger

The first mention of the name Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, as well as a description of him as an important member of Al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country. The United States did not conduct this detainee’s interrogation, nor did we render him to that country for the purpose of interrogation. We did not learn Abu Ahmed’s real name or alias as a result of waterboarding or any ‘enhanced interrogation technique’ used on a detainee in U.S. custody. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts, or an accurate description of his role in Al-Qaeda.

LM, you're smart enough to be able to read into this statement. It says WE did not torture him, but it does not implicitly say he was not tortured. The careful wording of his statement makes me believe the person was tortured and spilled the name.

[Longermonger]

Scenario #1: Somebody??? tortured a guy??? at a secret CIA prison in Poland and the most useful thing they could get was a nickname that meant nothing to them and they couldn't do anything with for years and years and years after tons and tons and tons of work by non-torturers in the CIA, mostly the guys that tap phones.

If that's the case, why are all of the Republicans saying that the nickname was learned by torturing KSM in Gitmo? Why wouldn't they just say the nickname was learned by torturing (XXXX) in (XXXXXX)? Is it just easier to lie than to give credit to Polish interrogators?

In any event, the nickname was just one of many pieces of the puzzle and could have likely been learned another way. What is of high value is the REAL name of the courier, his LOCATION, and his IMPORTANCE.

Scenario #2: The nickname was learned from the same guy in the same secret CIA prison, but not during torture. Maybe the guy was tortured at some point before or after, but not when he was talkative and accidentally slipped up, was tripped up, or gave up the nickname.

The CIA might know exactly how it happened or they might not. It depends on how the events were recorded and if those documents/tapes/videos/records still exist.

I'd like to give credit to the person who discovered the courier's REAL name. Naturally, we still don't know the REAL name (even though he's dead). Nor do we know how, exactly, the REAL name was learned. Or who found it.

Those 3 things that we still don't know show you where the bulk of the credit should be awarded to.

[Guest090920]

Originally Posted by Longermonger

I'd like to give credit to the person who discovered the courier's REAL name. Naturally, we still don't know the REAL name (even though he's dead). Nor do we know how, exactly, the REAL name was learned. Or who found it.

Those 3 things that we still don't know show you where the bulk of the credit should be awarded to.

None of us need to know any of those things, Lulz. There's this thing called national security and intelligence gathering, I'm sure you've heard about it. Just because CNN is everywhere doesn't mean we have a need or right to know how our government is protecting us.

if this upsets you, contact catnipdipper. The two of you can complain, whine and commiserate together.

[Longermonger]

Duh. Thanks Captain Obvious!

[Guest090920]

Originally Posted by Longermonger

Duh. Thanks Captain Obvious!

You're welcome, Lulz, glad I could help you sort things down properly.