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WTF · 03-10-2011, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

. But that does not mean I believe wealth, resources or opportunities are limited. They're just limited for most of us. .

In other words unlimited wealth and resources for a very select few.....other than that wealth , resources and opportunities are unlimited!

That is a pretty big caveat there Rudyard!

Are you saying that the rest of the world is just to ignorant to go get their unlimited resources?

Is that what you tell wild life....."Hey Zebra's, there will be plenty of Zoo's for you! Forget about the open plains."

charlestudor2005 · 03-10-2011, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF

That is the Tragedy of the Commons view!

The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen

Let's take this one step farther. Why should anyone worry about their legacy?

When you look at the history of the world, who remembers the legacy of everyday people that lived, oh, say 3,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 years ago. Not only are they not remembered, no one even knows who they were.

Why be good or evil? You leave no lasting legacy over either one. You are nothing. You're not even counted in the grand scheme of things. So why put any effort into being either good or evil. It really doesn't matter. No matter what you do or how great you are, very few will remember you and the longer ago that you lived the more watered down your memory becomes until it completely disappears.

Knowing this, that you will eventually be completely forgotten, for most of us sooner, and for a select few, later, but most assuredly for them also, why, oh why, does it matter how you live your life?

In some respects, WTF, being an ass assures some extended legacy. People always remember PIAs longer than just regular people.

But I guess the question remains the same: where is the motivation to live a good life?

WTF · 03-10-2011, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

But I guess the question remains the same: where is the motivation to live a good life?

Listen, children, to a story
That was written long ago,
'Bout a kingdom on a mountain
And the valley-folk below.

On the mountain was a treasure
Buried deep beneath the stone,
And the valley-people swore
They'd have it for their very own.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

So the people of the valley
Sent a message up the hill,
Asking for the buried treasure,
Tons of gold for which they'd kill.

Came an answer from the kingdom,
"With our brothers we will share
All the secrets of our mountain,
All the riches buried there."

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Now the valley cried with anger,
"Mount your horses! Draw your sword!"
And they killed the mountain-people,
So they won their just reward.

Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor,
Go ahead and cheat a friend.
Do it in the name of Heaven,
You can justify it in the end.
There won't be any trumpets blowing
Come the judgement day,
On the bloody morning after....
One tin soldier rides away.

Charles its how you choose live your life! Of course in the end it doen't really matter TO YOU! You are dead. It is the getting there that matters.

Rudyard K · 03-10-2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF

You obviously have not heard of the Black Swan.

Oh, I've heard of it. But I don't know anything about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF

Just because we have always innovated our way out of natural resources limitations does not mean we will always do so.

And just because my car ran today...does not mean it will tomorrow. And just becuase the world span round it 24 hours yesterday...does not mean it will today. Shall we start a new thread where everyone can list all the things that happened today that may not happen tomorrow? Me thinks I hear Chicken Little squawking out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF

But that was not even my question. My question/statement was that the world has limited resources. If you do not believe that then so be it. You will make a great dinosaur, they had the same belief.

Uh, I'm not sure what resources the dinosaurs used up...maybe some leaves trees and other dinosaurs. All in all, they probably deposited as much resources back into the earth as they used. I'm sure you meant to say something profound there...but you fell a little short.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF

Why fight for resources Rudyard? Afterall we will just invent something better!

You, of course, are not required to. It seems like you are resigned to the fact that eventually we'll all be sitting here cold in the dark. The fight for resources is between those that believe in a tomorrow...and a lot of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF

In other words unlimited wealth and resources for a very select few.....other than that wealth , resources and opportunities are unlimited!

That is a pretty big caveat there Rudyard!

Are you saying that the rest of the world is just to ignorant to go get their unlimited resources?

It's always interesting to me how you can't seem to debate with what was said...you seem to need to form your own debate comments so that you have something you feel capable of debating.

Like many in life, you can't get past looking at what the other man gets...to see what you got. A sad way to live, IMHO.

Gates invented the microsoft product...and made a jillion dollars by doing so. But each of us share in the benefits that invention produced. Edison invented the light bulb, and got wealthy from doing so. But all of our world was brighter as a result. There are many inventors who also invented things, and who gave it to society for little or no personal financial gain. Society also benefitted from those innovations. I am thankful for all of the previous innovations, because they do make my life easier and better (at least I feel like they do). When I see a new innvoation, my reaction is..."Damn, why didn't I think of that?" Other's reaction seems to be..."That MoFo is making way to much money for that idea!" My reaction leaves me quite content...but again, that's just me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF

Is that what you tell wild life....."Hey Zebra's, there will be plenty of Zoo's for you! Forget about the open plains."

Honestly, I have no idea WTF that means?!

charlestudor2005 · 03-10-2011, 09:21 AM

@WTF

I saw Billy Jack in its limited release. It had a profound impact on me at the time, but, then, I was an idealistic student. Lots of water under the bridge and some of my naivete has washed away. In some respects, I've become quite jaded.

BTW, for those of you who haven't seen this cult classic, I recommend it. Many years after the first viewing, I saw it again, and it did not live up to my memory (what's new). The color, acting and plot was poor. But some of the points made therein are timeless.

NinaBrooke · 03-10-2011, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Knowing this, that you will eventually be completely forgotten, for most of us sooner, and for a select few, later, but most assuredly for them also, why, oh why, does it matter how you live your life?

But I guess the question remains the same: where is the motivation to live a good life?

I agree with you, no one has to do anything (except to die , that is). I think you make a great point in stating that how to live your life is based on philosophies/models on how to be a proper and decent human being, which vary in centuries, decades and nowadays with several strains on how to adapt to life. No one has to do anything, I think leaving a legacy is no obligation, but for some the thought of it might make them less afraid of death. I am with Nietzsche ( an existentialist philosopher) when he states that people use all kinds of excuses or philosophies to escape the thought of them just dying and rot in pieces. Some believe in afterlife , some believe in leaving a legacy, some believe in religions. Fact is, its all created in the human brain and its up to you if you decide to livea "good life" and it depends on what is a good life in your definition?

Marcus Aurelius · 03-10-2011, 03:40 PM

The universe is what 14.5 billion years old or something like that?

It will most likely expand to nothingness leaving just cold and dark behind.
No legacies remain. Even if that happens 15 billion years from now or a trillion.

Guest083011 · 03-10-2011, 05:06 PM

And a McDonalds burger will survive beyond that.

WTF · 03-10-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Oh, I've heard of it. But I don't know anything about it.

I was talking about the Black Swan theory, not common sense

And just because my car ran today...does not mean it will tomorrow. And just becuase the world span round it 24 hours yesterday...does not mean it will today. Shall we start a new thread where everyone can list all the things that happened today that may not happen tomorrow? Me thinks I hear Chicken Little squawking out there.

That was a Black Swan you heard...

Uh, I'm not sure what resources the dinosaurs used up...maybe some leaves trees and other dinosaurs. All in all, they probably deposited as much resources back into the earth as they used. I'm sure you meant to say something profound there...but you fell a little short.

Story of my life day late and a dollar short...So how many resources do you think man is putting back in the earth for future generations RK?

You, of course, are not required to. It seems like you are resigned to the fact that eventually we'll all be sitting here cold in the dark. The fight for resources is between those that believe in a tomorrow...and a lot of them.

Why fight for something that you think is unlimited?

It's always interesting to me how you can't seem to debate with what was said...you seem to need to form your own debate comments so that you have something you feel capable of debating.

Like many in life, you can't get past looking at what the other man gets...to see what you got. A sad way to live, IMHO.

Gates invented the microsoft product...and made a jillion dollars by doing so. But each of us share in the benefits that invention produced. Edison invented the light bulb, and got wealthy from doing so. But all of our world was brighter as a result. There are many inventors who also invented things, and who gave it to society for little or no personal financial gain. Society also benefitted from those innovations. I am thankful for all of the previous innovations, because they do make my life easier and better (at least I feel like they do). When I see a new innvoation, my reaction is..."Damn, why didn't I think of that?" Other's reaction seems to be..."That MoFo is making way to much money for that idea!" My reaction leaves me quite content...but again, that's just me.

WTF did all that commentary have to do with what you orginially said***....Hell you do not have to convince me that poor people in this country have it better that rich folks did 200 years ago.

***Originally Posted by Rudyard K

. But that does not mean I believe wealth, resources or opportunities are limited. They're just limited for most of us. .

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

. But that does not mean I believe wealth, resources or opportunities are limited. They're just limited for most of us. .

Honestly, I have no idea WTF that means?!

It means that that I believe that we have limited resources and uncontrolled population that are much like a swarm of locust in the future. That Zebra (and Lion....) will only be found in a zoo. We will have done nothing to control earth's overpopulation all because of folks such as yourself that that have heard of a Black swan but choole to call it a Chicken Little.

That is what I believe RK but you and I will be long gone before Mother Earth proves one of us correct.

Mercy!

Lea Madisson · 03-10-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

@WTF

I saw Billy Jack in its limited release. It had a profound impact on me at the time, but, then, I was an idealistic student. Lots of water under the bridge and some of my naivete has washed away. In some respects, I've become quite jaded.

BTW, for those of you who haven't seen this cult classic, I recommend it. Many years after the first viewing, I saw it again, and it did not live up to my memory (what's new). The color, acting and plot was poor. But some of the points made therein are timeless.

Choices:

[the deputy is holding one of the school's girls at gunpoint as Billy Jack approaches]
Deputy: Now you drop that gun or I'll shoot her!
Deputy: [long pause] I'm not gonna ask you again.
Billy Jack: You won't have to.
Deputy: What?
Billy Jack: I said shoot her.
Deputy: [cocks revolver] You'd kill her? just like that?
Billy Jack: [shakes his head] You'll kill her.
[points his rifle]
Billy Jack: And then I'll kill you. Just like that.

Gotta love Billy Jack...

Smooch!

Lea

Rudyard K · 03-11-2011, 09:22 AM

I know you're simply trying to pick something to argue about, but I'm not sure what it is.

"I was talking about the Black Swan theory, not common sense

"

"That was a Black Swan you heard..."

I said I didn't know anything about it...and I didn't. Hell, when you brought it up I thought you were talking about the movie that I understand is showing in theatres now. I doubt I'll go see it.

But, since you failed to indicate anything that would tell me WTF you were talking about, I decided to Google it and found that there is a theory that something that today (in hindsight) appears obvious but was unexpected when it occured. Ok, I now have some inkling of what you were referring to. So, what was your point or question?

"Story of my life day late and a dollar short...So how many resources do you think man is putting back in the earth for future generations RK?"

Not many. See how easy it is when you ask a coherant question?

"Why fight for something that you think is unlimited?"

Again, I know you're trying to find something to argue about, but I referred to "most of us" when I said that resources are limited. "Us" is generally inclusive of me. I'm not one of the innovators. I simply take things that are now deemed to be conventional and use them to my advantage. So, I must fight over those resources. But my doing so does not mean that I don't believe that the innovators out there will discover new things, that will ultimately become conventional, and I will then use them to my advantage.

"WTF did all that commentary have to do with what you orginially said***....Hell you do not have to convince me that poor people in this country have it better that rich folks did 200 years ago.

***Originally Posted by Rudyard K

. But that does not mean I believe wealth, resources or opportunities are limited. They're just limited for most of us."

Uh, OK. Sorry if I bored you with my commentary. If there was a question in the offing, I missed it.

"It means that that I believe that we have limited resources and uncontrolled population that are much like a swarm of locust in the future. That Zebra (and Lion....) will only be found in a zoo. We will have done nothing to control earth's overpopulation all because of folks such as yourself that that have heard of a Black swan but choole to call it a Chicken Little."

Don't think I was calling Black Swan, Chicken Little since i didn't even know WTF it was. I believe I was referring to you as Chicken Little. Perhaps I should have been more clear. Nevertheless, I also don't know where you conclude that I have no concern on overpopulation of the world. I know you like to follow the bouncing ball, but it seems you draw a lot of conclusions not based on any evidence.

"That is what I believe RK but you and I will be long gone before Mother Earth proves one of us correct."

Speak for yourself.