You got to wonder about those UAW elites

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by eyecu2

See-that's just being argumentative on basis of personal preference. There is no basis that the UAW is gonna lose out, nor that companies may ebb and flow into and out of the market. Lots of room to play and all ppl can have a choice. If you like the sound- that's cool. I love the sound of my v8 cars too, but I'm not offended by the silent whir of a car that has a electric motor- It's not wimpy or gay. Matter of fact, my neighbor has a tesla plaid that will smoke every domestic car including a new corvette right the fuck off the street. But if that's wimpy....call me wimpy. See how I omitted any comments offensive to golf carts. They are fun to drive on the course, and in some neighborhoods in the villages. the UAW has a lot of retiree's down there too. (although - truthfully, most of those golf carts have gasoline engines in them. )

No, I am just voicing my opinion. You're being argumentative because you don't like my opinion.

[eyecu2]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

I would note that while. when autos first appeared, both IC and steam (and yes electric too) there was no government push to de-Horsify the nation. Yet within a very few years, cities across the4 country were virtually horse free. Many frms followed a decade or so later and powered-up with tractors. People bought IC cars because they saw a transportation advantage to themselves.

Cell phones are another example of a self-evident consumer product that transformed society in much the same way.

"Build a better mousetrap . . ." is a real principle in consumer behavior.

Electric cars currently are not "there" yet. I do believe that they could be, but not now. Yet people and companies are being coerced into movbing that way by government. If EVs and an all-electric society was THE way to go, everyone would go that way sooner or later without coercion by government.

Ford lost a coup;e billion on EVs last year. Automakers are closing plants for lacvk of demand. The news stories about useless EVs in the cold north can't be helping.

All those things are true- but without incentives and adoptions of technology, things are reluctant to change. Remember newtons' law of objects that are "not in motion". Adoption rates on EV's is being incentivized both politically and financially. EV charging are one of the biggest investments in some areas of infrastructure according the NHI. Most larger electric companies who are investing in the grid, are putting them on as part of that incentive too. While adoption may take longer than a 5-10 years- technology will continue to evolve on both chargers and battery tech. (There are lots of new battery stuff happening right now also!) To make a comparison to Cell phone adoption- It was 1984-ish when I remember phones coming out. All of them were a grand or more, were analog, had big units, or a bag to sit in the car. Worked like shit, cause of low amount of towers> fast forward- the cell tower map is almost over 75% of populated areas. still not at 100%. While the EV market starts out slow, it will see the same type of adoption IMHO, and charger stations will be just like those cell towers as they start growing. They won't replace it for everyone's driving needs, but the technology for some charging while driving is already in the works. WHo knows what brainiac out there is gonna be able to harness.

In general- those companies who invested too quick in the EV market, may pull back the throttles a little bit in the short term, but there is an appetite for going away from GAS and emissions- despite none of it being perfect.

What about a national electric program for nuke plants to supply the electric grid- regulated to minimize prices etc. but also built using large scale project funding by the govt>?? The federal highway system started that way too. Maybe it's time to think bigger instead of rolling the calendar back to 1940 mindsets of cars and gasoline in general.

[Precious_b]

So ofa, you sure are sounding like you got a big bias going on. So tell us, do you have stock in leather and tanning businesses? Got any money squirrelled away in coachworks companies? Feedworks for horses?

Are you crying for those business?

It's called progress. Your industry has a finite source of product. There are many more electrons than you can pump from the biggest oilfeild. And the new kid is renewable from many different areas.

There are better uses for petroleum than just burning it up to go from A to B. *I* think it is wiser to use it for such.

Originally Posted by eyecu2

UAW builds cars. Doesn't matter what powerplant is in them. If your point was about loss of use of petroleum products, then look at API elites. Two totally different interests

UAW would be able to adapt. Have already done it in the past. And it will happen in the future.

Originally Posted by ICU 812

I have experienced the effects of hurricnes here on the Gulfg Coast for several decades now. I have evacuated for one or two and stayed put for others. The power always goes out. Folks have a hard time recharging their EVs in good times. What will they do in an emergency? During one evacuation, I managed to bring along enough extra gas to refill our pickup after the storm.

Two years ago, I was "home-alone" during the deep freeze when the Texas electric grid went down. A neighbor cranked up a small generator and threw an extension cord over the fence for me. I ran a space heater overnight and the next day till we got power back.

And now back to electric vehicles: I grew up in a northern tie3r state. Winters can be cold. We are now seeing that an EV just does not work that well in the cold.

It is my belief that an all-electric economy is not ideal for a nation of 350 million.

You may not believe it is ideal, but it is coming. The electrical grid is already over stretched, It needs to double in size in a very short amount of time if we are not to suffer any consequences by not being able to move the current and future electricity that people are demanding.

And on a personal note, i'm surprised you had to run a space heater. If you would have had solar panels, you would have a built in inverter to where you could have had a little electrical power and could have kicked a few batteries on there and you would have been good. That wouldn't be possible if others followed your believe. *I* like gas when it comes to heating and take little juice to run a furnace.

Originally Posted by ICU 812

I would note that while. when autos first appeared, both IC and steam (and yes electric too) there was no government push to de-Horsify the nation. Yet within a very few years, cities across the4 country were virtually horse free. Many frms followed a decade or so later and powered-up with tractors. People bought IC cars because they saw a transportation advantage to themselves.

Cell phones are another example of a self-evident consumer product that transformed society in much the same way.

"Build a better mousetrap . . ." is a real principle in consumer behavior.

Electric cars currently are not "there" yet. I do believe that they could be, but not now. Yet people and companies are being coerced into movbing that way by government. If EVs and an all-electric society was THE way to go, everyone would go that way sooner or later without coercion by government.

Ford lost a coup;e billion on EVs last year. Automakers are closing plants for lacvk of demand. The news stories about useless EVs in the cold north can't be helping.

This guy gets it.

And technology gets better. Just need a spongy material that soaks up electrons. Ima thinking carbon nanotubes. But i'm sure they'll keep some of that relic tech around. Battery block warmer?

[ICU 812]

Originally Posted by eyecu2

All those things are true- but without incentives and adoptions of technology, things are reluctant to change. Remember newtons' law of objects that are "not in motion". Adoption rates on EV's is being incentivized both politically and financially. EV charging are one of the biggest investments in some areas of infrastructure according the NHI. Most larger electric companies who are investing in the grid, are putting them on as part of that incentive too. While adoption may take longer than a 5-10 years- technology will continue to evolve on both chargers and battery tech. (There are lots of new battery stuff happening right now also!) To make a comparison to Cell phone adoption- It was 1984-ish when I remember phones coming out. All of them were a grand or more, were analog, had big units, or a bag to sit in the car. Worked like shit, cause of low amount of towers> fast forward- the cell tower map is almost over 75% of populated areas. still not at 100%. While the EV market starts out slow, it will see the same type of adoption IMHO, and charger stations will be just like those cell towers as they start growing. They won't replace it for everyone's driving needs, but the technology for some charging while driving is already in the works. WHo knows what brainiac out there is gonna be able to harness.

In general- those companies who invested too quick in the EV market, may pull back the throttles a little bit in the short term, but there is an appetite for going away from GAS and emissions- despite none of it being perfect.

What about a national electric program for nuke plants to supply the electric grid- regulated to minimize prices etc. but also built using large scale project funding by the govt>?? The federal highway system started that way too. Maybe it's time to think bigger instead of rolling the calendar back to 1940 mindsets of cars and gasoline in general.

Thanks for your rational response to real issues.

To summarize my position: I do believe in that old saw: "If you build a better mouse trap, the world will beat a path to your door.".

Automobiles of various types were being made in the late 1800s and on into the 20th Century. But they were an unreliable luxury. Henry ford in the USA and others in Europe changed that with relatively relabel and more importantly, affordable machines. No one had to coerce a wide swath of the American public to adopt this new technology. The advantages and benefits of owning a Model-T sold the cars to city folks and farmers alike.

This happened rapidly in the US. Ford's first offering was in, what . . .1910 I think. Five years later, when the Army chased Pancho Villa back into Mexico in 1915, they brought a number of Modl-T^s along as well as a Wright Flyer.

In Europe in this same time frame, the city of Paris was saved from German occupation when the city's fleet of civilian owned Taxis was mobilized to bring reservists to the front.

If the technology is that good and it fills a real need, there is no need for incentives be they financial or political

My evaluation of the current situation is that the concept of an all-electric society, including electric cars and scooters is just not at that point where people will momentarily drop their savings into that technology on a large scale. Most folks do not see a cost-effective banafit in that direction.

OH, and I too am a longtime proponent of natin wide nuclesr power.

[Ripmany]

There can make electric in same plant that makes a gas car all made of plastic, steal aluminum and copper. It just where it made. Sadly if not working at Ford, GM or xxxChrysler, basically you working in dirty nasty factory that fires you minute for will pay. I was UAW it treated company. And treated steal not easy work and made hard gears and bullets.