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Old 05-02-2022, 01:01 AM   #1
dilbert firestorm
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Default Russians at War

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...8/russians-war

Putin’s Aggression Has Turned a Nation Against Itself
By Andrei Kolesnikov
April 18, 2022

In early April, the coffin containing the body of 75-year-old Vladimir Zhirinovsky—the ultranationalist and populist who was a crucial pillar of the Russian state for two decades—was taken to the Hall of Columns in central Moscow for people to pay their respects. Sixty-nine years ago, it was there that Stalin had lain in state, in the process killing one last wave of Russians, who were crushed to death in the huge crowds that had gathered to bid farewell to the Soviet dictator.

There was no stampede to see Zhirinovsky, although his funeral recalled a different moment from the Soviet era. His body had been brought to the Hall of Columns in an Aurus Lafet—the strictly limited-edition black hearse made by Aurus Motors, Russia’s much-hyped new luxury car manufacturer. In Russian, lafet means “funeral carriage,” and for Russians like me, who are old enough to remember the early 1980s, the name of the car evokes a darkly comic joke: when the elderly Soviet leaders Leonid Brezhnev, Yuri Andropov, and Konstantin Chernenko all died in quick succession, it was known as the Race of the Lafets.

Could Russian President Vladimir Putin’s inner circle now be facing a new Race of the Lafets? Certainly, there are many Kremlin figures who are of a similar age to their counterparts in the late Soviet years: Putin will be 70 in October; Alexander Bortnikov, the head of his FSB, and Nikolai Patrushev, the secretary of his security council, are both 70 now. Sergei Lavrov, his foreign minister, is 72. Much like Brezhnev’s aging Politburo when it decided to invade Afghanistan, thus demolishing what remained of the moral foundations of the Soviet empire, these gerontocrats’ decision to launch a war in Ukraine has quickly become a disaster for Russia—and especially its youth.

For the moment, the regime has Russian public opinion on its side, and it may continue to delude itself, just as it is deluding the people, that it can turn Russia into a self-sufficient, self-isolating, expansionist rogue state, based on the idea of Russian superiority over other nations. In the medium and long term, however, the “special military operation,” as Putin insists on calling it, seems destined to undermine all of Russia’s political, economic, and moral foundations.

At War With Themselves

The Putin regime seems to regard the Russian people with nearly the same attitude that it does their Ukrainian counterparts. For proof of this, one has to look no further than the public and police pressure now being put on anyone in Russia who dares think differently, the shutting down or purging of almost every independent media outlet and research organization, and the persecution of anyone who protests or even merely disagrees with the patriotic hysteria. Ukrainians are depicted as a faceless, homogenous mass that must be subjugated to the Kremlin by means of denazification, a process that in actual fact means de-Ukrainization, as Putin’s propagandists now openly admit. But Russians are also considered by their leaders as an unthinking mass that must blindly follow their leader. Otherwise, they face administrative or criminal charges and social ostracism. Russian soldiers—a group that includes not only military die-hards but also tens of thousands of very young conscripts who are performing obligatory national service—have become cannon fodder, sent unprepared to the slaughter. Putin’s senseless ideas are costing Russian teenagers their lives.

In one of his few speeches in recent weeks, Putin declared open season on “national traitors” and on a “fifth column” that was supposedly undermining the unity of the nation. To root out these malefactors, he urged a “self-cleansing of society.” Russians quickly heeded the call: after the speech, there was a wave of denunciations, with students condemning their teachers—and vice versa—and colleagues reporting on each other. The Russian president also encouraged acts of barbarity against his critics. Alexei Venediktov, the editor of Echo of Moscow, the independent radio station that was shut down by Putin’s government soon after the invasion began, had a pig’s head left outside his door, along with anti-Semitic graffiti. On a train out of Moscow, a man attacked Dmitry Muratov, the editor in chief of the newspaper Novaya Gazeta and the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize last year, by dousing him in red paint mixed with the toxic chemical acetone.
After Putin called for “self-cleansing,” Russians rushed to denounce each other.
Putin has divided the nation. Both opponents and supporters of the Russian leader have become more radicalized. Of course, most of those who oppose the war are Putin critics and young people. Some soldiers have refused to fight in Ukraine, and some families of those who have been slain are furious with Putin. Young people have bravely taken to the streets to protest the war, despite facing immediate arrest and the prospect of losing their job or place at university. Yet until now, a clear majority of Russians have rallied around Putin, even though, according to independent polling conducted last year, most Russians were afraid of war and didn’t believe it could actually happen. Today, the public, or at least the broad mass of ordinary Russians, seems in the mood for war.

Of course, it is difficult to measure opinion in a system that has one leader and that for all practical purposes no longer has any free media. But it is clear that Russians feel besieged and, often, just as embittered as Putin himself. Consider the data of the most recent poll by the independent Levada Center. Contrary to what critics claim, respondents did not refuse to answer questions any more than in past surveys, and the study itself was conducted, as usual, by in-person interviews rather than by telephone. The results are telling: 81 percent of respondents said they supported the “special operation,” with a full 53 percent “definitely” supporting it, and 28 percent “rather” supporting it. It is also worth noting another figure: in connection with the special operation, a slight majority—51 percent—of respondents said that they felt “pride in Russia.” Those who did not—many of them young people—described their feelings as “anxiety, fear, horror,” or simply “shock.”

At the same time, Putin’s approval rating, again according to Levada, soared to 83 percent in March, up 12 percent from the previous month. The surge of public support tracks closely with what occurred after the annexation of Crimea in 2014; but back then, the climate was altogether more benign, and those who opposed Putin’s actions did not face humiliation by their peers. (Nevertheless, in a speech at the time, Putin labeled anyone who spoke against his policies as a “national traitor.”) Moreover, in contrast to Russian actions in Ukraine now, the annexation was accomplished without any bloodshed, and many saw the “reunification” of Crimea with Russia, as the Kremlin called it, as restoring and enhancing Russia’s greatness.

Today, the dominant response of ordinary Russians to the war is aggression. It is undergirded by what seems to be an almost subconscious effort to block out any bad news, and with it, any sense that the nation might be in the wrong. Fear of authority not only prevents people from protesting against a barbaric war; it also makes them unable to admit even to themselves that Putin’s Russia has committed something dreadful. It is frightening to be on the side of evil. It is frightening to look at the monstrous photographs and video footage coming out of Ukraine—using a virtual private network to circumvent the Kremlin’s Internet controls—and to discover just how dangerous the truth is. And so, for many, it is easier to imbibe the official propaganda and know that you’re on the good side: the Ukrainians were going to attack us; we just carried out a preventative strike; we are liberating a fraternal people from a Nazi regime supported by the West; all the reports about atrocities supposedly carried out by our army are fake. As one woman in a Levada Center focus group said, “If I watched the BBC, maybe I’d think differently, but I will never watch the BBC, because for me what I watch is enough.”

Moscow Syndrome

Putin is backed into a corner, but so is the nation. Russians are collectively experiencing a version of Stockholm syndrome, sympathizing more with their own captor than with his other victims. The politicians, meanwhile—granted that they, too, are tethered to the Kremlin—are divided over what to do next. Some, such as the Putin’s chief negotiator Vladimir Medinsky and the Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, say they favor a peace agreement. Others, like the Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, advocate “seeing it through to the end”—though what kind of end?—and consider any negotiations a form of betrayal. This range of views is reflected in society at large: for some, victory means a peace agreement that gives Russia significant new territory; for others, victory requires going all the way and conquering all of Ukraine, which, of course, means perpetual war.

Putin’s supporters, intoxicated by what they take to be patriotism, attack anyone who criticizes the war and claim not to understand why some people are protesting against it: 32 percent of respondents in another Levada poll said they believed that protesters were paid to do so. How else to account for the thousands of people who have taken to the streets to oppose the liberation of Ukraine from Nazis? No matter that they cannot explain who and how these thousands of people were paid to risk their freedom and livelihood to protest against the massacre. But such illogical assertions are nothing new: a portion of Russia’s hard-bitten mainstream has often said this about political protesters in recent times.

To Russians, the term “fascism” has long served as a convenient label for almost anything bad. During Soviet times it was common to say that “fascists” and “revanchists” have “raised their heads” in various parts of the world, from the United States to Germany. At times, an even harsher term, “Nazis,” was used. With characteristic lack of irony, Soviet propaganda first used the term in reference to Israel: after the Six-Day War in 1967, when the USSR broke off diplomatic relations with Israel, the Israelis were written off as Nazis. For Putin, the specter of Nazis has provided a way to indoctrinate the nation, to insist that Ukraine has no right to exist. Putin needs the history of World War II to legitimize his regime, but Russians have yet to realize that in doing so he has also destroyed the foundations of the post-Soviet state. Everything was built on the defeat of fascism in the Great Patriotic War, as Russians call World War II. Yet in the eyes of Ukrainians—and much of the rest of the world—Russians themselves are now behaving like fascists. Russians can hardly draw on their country’s experience fighting Hitler to justify their own brutal militarism. On the contrary, they are making themselves in the very image of the Germans in the wake of World War II. This is what Putin has done: Russia is no longer on the winning side of the Great Patriotic War; it is no longer on the right side of history.
Deep down, Russians are beginning to understand that escape may be impossible.
The bulk of the Russian population doesn’t realize this. And of course, this year, during Victory Day celebrations on May 9—one of Russia’s most important state holidays, commemorating the end of World War II—Putin will no doubt equate the Soviet victory in 1945 with his own triumph over the powers of reason. By May 9, Putin will have to find the words to describe the specific parameters of the new victory in Ukraine. And they must be convincing enough to make the triumph resemble 1945. But many Russians already seem to view what Russia is doing now as equivalent to the defeat of Hitler: the letter Z, the symbol of the special operation, is often portrayed as a curved St. George’s ribbon, the symbol of victory over fascism.

In reality, however, most people feel trapped: the West is more hostile toward them than ever, but there is nothing left for them in Russia. They support Putin as the supreme commander of their fabled army, but deep down they are beginning to understand that the president has led them to a place from which escape may be impossible. For Russians, it is an age-old feeling. As far back as 1863, the brilliant revolutionary thinker Alexander Herzen identified the tension: “The Russian’s position is becoming interminably difficult,” he wrote from Italy. “He feels more and more foreign in the West, while his hatred for what is being done at home grows deeper and deeper.” Then, as now, the hatred is secret rather than overt. And Russians cannot admit it to themselves.

Running Away from Reality

Many Russians with a conscience, self-awareness, and a profession—and the means to do so—are voting with their feet and leaving the country. Exact numbers are hard to come by, and in the vast majority of cases, those who go abroad say they are doing so temporarily: they are sitting out the war and waiting for change to come to Russia, but they have no intention of establishing a permanent new life in another country. They are motivated less by a fear of persecution than by a lack of belief in Russia’s prospects and disgust at what the regime has become. As a result, Russia is hemorrhaging its professional class, the people on whom its aspirations for a modern, diversified economy have long rested. If this turns into a long-term trend, the exodus will fundamentally harm the country’s human capital. And the population that is left behind may well be even less open to Western values and liberal ideas.

Faced with looming economic catastrophe, the state seems likely to aim its efforts at those Russians who can be relied on to support the regime provided they are offered enough cash and other basic rewards to do so. These are the broad masses whose loyalty must be bought with social payments and salaries in the state-dependent sectors and who must be fed a steady diet of propaganda in order to stay in line. Yet as the growing effects of sanctions set in, this project has become far more expensive and the resources for supporting these people may begin to dry up. This will be especially true if Russia loses the ability to sell oil and gas.

Over time, the accumulating effects of the war could erode public trust in Putin. As the military campaign and the immense propaganda machine that has gone with it continue to operate at full tilt, social cohesion will begin to break down, and the forces that have traditionally sustained the economy will no longer function. But for now, Russians seem content to project their discontents on the enemy. To the question, Who is to blame? they answer: the United States and Europe.

Putin has hit a dead end, and Ukraine, along with the rest of the world, is suffering as a result. But in the long term, it is a disaster for the Russian people, too. The nation that contributed so much to world culture—that produced so many great novelists and thinkers and three Nobel Peace Prize winners—will now also be for a long time associated with Vladimir Putin. The West has to understand that, as banal as it sounds, Putin’s system and the Russian nation are not one and the same. And this understanding will be crucial for building a post-Putin Russia. Otherwise, the country will continue to be regarded as a hostile enclave, to be shunned by the world. But, ultimately, it will be up to Russians themselves to prove by their own actions that their country is more than Putin and what he has wrought.

ANDREI KOLESNIKOV is a Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
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Old 05-02-2022, 10:23 AM   #2
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Default Funny you should mention that

It would be pretty easy to change out Russia for USA, Putin for Biden and a few other substitutions yielding an entirely similar story to tell here.
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Old 05-02-2022, 11:24 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm View Post
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...8/russians-war

Putin’s Aggression Has Turned a Nation Against Itself
By Andrei Kolesnikov
April 18, 2022




Putin has hit a dead end, and Ukraine, along with the rest of the world, is suffering as a result. But in the long term, it is a disaster for the Russian people, too. The nation that contributed so much to world culture—that produced so many great novelists and thinkers and three Nobel Peace Prize winners—will now also be for a long time associated with Vladimir Putin. The West has to understand that, as banal as it sounds, Putin’s system and the Russian nation are not one and the same. And this understanding will be crucial for building a post-Putin Russia. Otherwise, the country will continue to be regarded as a hostile enclave, to be shunned by the world. But, ultimately, it will be up to Russians themselves to prove by their own actions that their country is more than Putin and what he has wrought.

ANDREI KOLESNIKOV is a Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Does Putin control Russia? Or just the government? Is there an insurgency? In the populace or his henchmen? Are we, the US, active in creating an underground revolt?

More questions than comments dilbert.
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Old 05-02-2022, 10:19 PM   #4
dilbert firestorm
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Originally Posted by eccieuser9500 View Post
Does Putin control Russia? Or just the government? Is there an insurgency? In the populace or his henchmen? Are we, the US, active in creating an underground revolt?

More questions than comments dilbert.
urm.. I think Russians are just tired.

an underground revolt is not possible at this time.

not enough russian ukr deaths to raise holy hell from russian families like what happened with afghanistan.
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Old 05-02-2022, 10:33 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm View Post
urm.. I think Russians are just tired.

an underground revolt is not possible at this time.

not enough russian ukr deaths to raise holy hell from russian families like what happened with afghanistan.

Do you, or this author, think this means anything? Just because the people are tired, doesn't mean they're going to do anything about it.

Is there enough dissent? Again, more questions than assertions. But a great idea. Of a possible grassroots uprising.

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Old 05-03-2022, 02:04 AM   #6
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one way it ends ..


Russia will face a coup after Putin's defeat in Ukraine, says interior minister's adviser

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-fa...103300133.html

Mon, May 2, 2022, 5:33 AM


Ukrainian military inspects part of the destroyed Russian equipment in the Zaporizhzhia oblast. April 30, 2022.


Read also: Day 68 of Putin's war. Russia continues shelling of grain warehouses, fires a missile on Odesa


"Historically, Russia collapses after a military defeat – the Russian authorities experience coups and destruction after military defeat," Andrusiv said.


"I don't rule out a coup after (Russia is) defeated in Ukraine,” he said. “Putin's extradition to The Hague may be one of the conditions for settling relations between Russia, the West and us."


Andrusiv said justice is a long process, but the most important thing is that it is done.


"(Nazi dictator Adolf) Hitler's defeat ensured 70 years of world stability," he said.


"Now Putin's defeat must ensure lasting peace and a new system of international security for years. So it's not a matter of deadlines, but of the justice that is to come."


Read also: Putin is inching towards his nukes, threatening to annihilate the world if he fails to capture Ukraine, says foreign affairs expert


As an academic, Andrusiv wrote several publications before the full-scale Russian invasion, claiming that the war in Ukraine would be the last for Russia.


"I drew a parallel with Germany. It had to suffer two major defeats to completely transform itself, its consciousness and attitude," he said.


Read also: Putin will respond with threats of chemical, nuclear weapons to increased Western support for Ukraine believes


"(Defeat in Ukraine) will be the second for the Russians. The first one was the collapse of the Soviet Union, the defeat of one generation. And the second is defeat in this war. And I'm sure that after that they will start the same processes as in Germany, when they come to the conclusion that it's no longer possible to resolve an issue by force."


or the hard way ..



Ukraine Spy Boss Declares War Will End in Putin’s Death

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-s...185912456.html

Shannon Vavra
Mon, May 2, 2022, 1:59 PM·3 min read

  • Vladimir Putin
    President of Russia
(Photo by OZAN KOSE/AFP via Getty Images)

The only way Russia’s war in Ukraine ends is with Russian President Vladimir Putin dead, Kyrylo Budanov, Ukraine’s top military spy, said Monday.


“Leaving him a way to retreat is one of the strategies, but it is almost unrealistic,” Budanov said when asked if Putin could end this war alive. “He is a war criminal for the whole world. This is his end, he drove himself into a dead end.”


“Don't worry, Ukraine will win,” Budanov said, speaking during an interview The New Voice of Ukraine released Monday.


Once Putin is somehow offed—and Budanov does not offer up any potential details of how an ouster or assassination may happen—the future of Russia could go one of two paths. First, Russia could be divided into multiple parts, Budanov opined. The other option, however, could lead to the “relative preservation of the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation when changing the country's leadership,” he said.


President Joe Biden, too, has suggested that Putin should not remain in power.


Tapped Calls Expose Russia’s Heinous Treatment of Own Dead Troops


“For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power,” Biden said in remarks delivered in Warsaw, Poland, during a visit in March.


The White House sought to walk back the remarks to some extent, urging caution at assuming Biden meant Putin should be assassinated or assuming that the Biden Administration is now seeking regime change in Russia.


U.S. Secretary of State Tony Blinken has also suggested that it would be up to the Russian people to determine whether Putin would remain in power.


The comments from Ukraine’s military intelligence chief, though, come days in advance of May 9, or Victory Day, the day Russia celebrates the Soviet Union’s victory over Nazi Germany—a date which many military analysts have warned could be a key date for escalation in Russia’s war in Ukraine. Putin has harped repeatedly on his false claim that he wants to “de-nazify” Ukraine, and Victory Day could be a pivotal and symbolic moment for Putin, whose forces have been blundering their way through the war, to try to declare victory, analysts warn.


Russian forces have not been securing as many wins or moving as quickly as Putin would have liked, U.S. defense officials have said. They’ve been abandoning equipment, quitting on the spot, and stalling on roads after failing to secure the appropriate supplies to refuel. And after failing to take Kyiv, the capital, Russian forces have been retreating and regrouping to launch attacks anew in eastern portions of Ukraine in the Donbas.


And after failing to reach multiple deadlines in the war, Putin is likely scrambling for some kind of victory to bring home and tout to his country, Budanov said, adding that he is convinced Putin, for now, is planning to try to mobilize for Victory Day.


“They had the main deadline—to have time to finish by April 24… they completely failed him. The second date is to complete the operation at least in Donbas by May 9,” Budanov said.


“Putin cannot admit that he is losing to Ukraine,” Budanov warned.
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