Pay the Sandmann!

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

The Japanese had all night to ready the first and only 7-minute launch.

How did they do on their second try at it?

Looks like all your info came from your memory.
And of course, you lie about the effect your "kernel" had on the battle. None.

The Japanese had 4 decks. The US had 3.
The only 7 minute launch they had was an attack on a fixed position target involving 2/5 of the aircraft you stated. 27 aircraft per carrier. At 4:30 in the morning.
You have no information about how much time it took to get them ready to launch.


Launching in 7 minutes doesn't include any of the staging, arming, or any of the prep work needed to ready a plane to launch. I've included information that shows 50 minutes is @average to ready and launch a strike

The Hornet's planes ran out of fuel because they took the wrong heading from the get-go as well as the long-range to the targets.
None of the planes used excess fuel waiting on large strike groups.



Coming from a well-known nitpicker, this is pretty sad/funny.
You're pissed because you got caught lying. You increased numbers to make a point that had no effect on the battle.
27 planes, all readied to launch from a carrier, took 7 minutes under no battle duress. Big whoop.
You make all manners of assumptions to attempt to prove your point. This is your MO for many posts.
You got caught and then you got mad. Your inner (as well as your outer) child takes over. I live in the real world, not trump-land.
You're a trumpy because you're a lying liar. It's your comfort zone.
The only things you got right were that Yorktown's crew was better trained and that you were wrong about the number of planes in the strike. The Japanese had more experience, not better training.
Japanese training models are inflexible and leave no room for initiative. Anytime they hit something unexpected, they lock up.

See below that they could have had another carrier.

Even during a "rebuttal" that you had plenty of time to check, you lie instead. All that time and still no clue about the Hornet's strike groups issues. You were talking about training and doctrine so that's what you blame.

What a douche-bag.





"During the Battle of the Coral Sea one month earlier, the Japanese light carrier Shōhō had been sunk, while the fleet carrier Shōkaku had been severely damaged by three bomb hits and was in drydock for months of repair. Although the fleet carrier Zuikaku escaped the battle undamaged, she had lost almost half her air group, and was in port in Kure awaiting replacement planes and pilots. That there were none immediately available is attributable to the failure of the IJN crew training program, which already showed signs of being unable to replace losses. Instructors from the Yokosuka Air Corps were employed in an effort to make up the shortfall.[38]

Historians Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully believe that by combining the surviving aircraft and pilots from Shōkaku and Zuikaku, it is likely that Zuikaku could have been equipped with almost a full composite air group. They also note that doing so would have violated Japanese carrier doctrine, which stressed that carriers and their airgroups must train as a single unit (in contrast, American air squadrons were considered interchangeable between carriers). In any case, the Japanese apparently made no serious attempt to get Zuikaku ready for the forthcoming battle.[39]"


"Spruance judged that, though the range was extreme, a strike could succeed and gave the order to launch the attack. He then left Halsey's Chief of Staff, Captain Miles Browning, to work out the details and oversee the launch. The carriers had to launch into the wind, so the light southeasterly breeze would require them to steam away from the Japanese at high speed. Browning therefore suggested a launch time of 07:00, giving the carriers an hour to close on the Japanese at 25 knots (46km/h; 29mph). This would place them at about 155 nautical miles (287km; 178mi) from the Japanese fleet, assuming it did not change course. The first plane took off from Spruance's carriers Enterprise and Hornet a few minutes after 07:00.[85]Fletcher, upon completing his own scouting flights, followed suit at 08:00 from Yorktown.[86]
Fletcher, along with Yorktown's commanding officer, Captain Elliott Buckmaster, and their staffs, had acquired first-hand experience in organizing and launching a full strike against an enemy force in the Coral Sea, but there was no time to pass these lessons on to Enterprise and Hornet which were tasked with launching the first strike.[87]Spruance ordered the striking aircraft to proceed to target immediately, rather than waste time waiting for the strike force to assemble, since neutralizing enemy carriers was the key to the survival of his own task force.[86][87]
While the Japanese were able to launch 108 aircraft in just seven minutes, it took Enterprise and Hornet over an hour to launch 117.[88]Spruance judged that the need to throw something at the enemy as soon as possible was greater than the need to coordinate the attack by aircraft of different types and speeds (fighters, bombers, and torpedo bombers). Accordingly, American squadrons were launched piecemeal and proceeded to the target in several different groups. It was accepted that the lack of coordination would diminish the impact of the American attacks and increase their casualties, but Spruance calculated that this was worthwhile, since keeping the Japanese under aerial attack impaired their ability to launch a counterstrike (Japanese tactics preferred fully constituted attacks), and he gambled that he would find Nagumo with his flight decks at their most vulnerable.[86][87]
American carrier aircraft had difficulty locating the target, despite the positions they had been given. The strike from Hornet, led by Commander Stanhope C. Ring, followed an incorrect heading of 265 degrees rather than the 240 degrees indicated by the contact report. As a result, Air Group Eight's dive bombers missed the Japanese carriers.[89][90]Torpedo Squadron 8(VT-8, from Hornet), led by Lieutenant CommanderJohn C. Waldron, broke formation from Ring and followed the correct heading. The 10F4Fs from Hornet ran out of fuel and had to ditch.[91]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway

Taken together, it is apparent that spotting a twenty-one-plane strike for launch would take around forty minutes total, and another five to ten minutes would be required for the launch.12 If the deck spot contained dive-bombers, the spotting time would be perhaps five to ten minutes longer, because these planes had to be armed during engine warm up. This timing is directly confirmed in official Japanese sources.13 The need to warm up engines on the flight deck, dictated by Japanese hangar design, reveals itself as a major hindrance to Japanese operational tempos. Unfortunately, warm-up could not be shortened—aircraft casualties were the inevitable outcome of slighting this activity, and needless losses had to be avoided at all costs.14 Thus, if Nagumo was to attack the American strike force, he needed to find an unbroken forty-five-minute window of opportunity on all four flight decks during which to spot and then launch his.

From page 4
https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cg...ext=nwc-review

My original post was never a comparison between what the Japanese did and how the the U.S. did in the same battle, it was merely a statement of fact that the Japanese trained to a high level of proficiency to perform the same kind of mission -- the "Elephant Walk" moving from the staging position to an actual launch -- that was being practiced by the U.S.A.F. in Utah last week. Then along you come with your straw man bullshit.

The authors of the book, Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully, cited by the Wiki editor DO make that comparison and note that the Enterprise and Hornet launches were poor in comparison to what the Japanese did while they praised the efficiency of the Yorktown. Maybe be your dumb-ass should ACTUALLY read what Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully wrote rather than try to debate with the Reader's Digest version you see at Wiki.

Just like the Japanese, these three U.S. carriers already had their planes readied and staged on the flight deck. So your notion that the Japanese had some kind of advantage is bullshit.

Your reference to the forty-five minutes Nagumo needed is also bullshit. That forty-five minutes Nagumo needed included the time Nagumo need to land the Midway strike-force that was already in the air and the elevator time to move those returning planes to the hangar decks and then -- AND THEN -- to move all of his readied planes from the hangar decks to the flight decks and then launch them. Your notion that you are comparing apples-to-apples is bullshit.

Furthermore, jackass, the Hornet's planes did splash because they'd been in the air too long. The fighters, which had the shortest turn around time, were launched first and waited an hour for the TBFs and SBDs, which had a longer turn around times. That additional hour of fuel would have gotten most of them home. As it was, all of those fighters splashed. Maybe be your dumb-ass should ACTUALLY read the fucking book rather than try to debate with the Reader's Digest version you see at Wiki.

Regarding Coral Sea, notice how a transfer of aircrews from the Zuikaku to the Shōkaku violated Japanese doctrine and was a command decision and is, therefore, irrelevant in regards to the proficiency of the aircrews at launching. The Japanese could have had four additional carriers for the carrier battle at Midway: five counting the Zuikaku. If your dumb-ass had ACTUALLY read the fucking book rather than try to argue with the Reader's Digest version you see at Wiki, you'd know that.

And none of your bullshit detracts from the fact that training, training, training enabled the Japanese to perform that part of their mission with great proficiency, and similar training, training, training by the U.S.A.F. will give U.S. crews the same degree of proficiency.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Yeah. I made a fucking mistake in claiming...

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

You're pissed because you got caught lying....

Wow!!

It takes a special kind of jackass to call someone a liar after he admits he made an honest mistake.

You must be a miserable human being, manmuncher. I feel sorry for you.

Once in a while, as therapy, you would do well to pour another double scotch and remind yourself of what John Riggins said to Sandra Day O'Connor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...osen-up-sandy/

[bb1961]

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

Wrong. This is typical of your posts. You toss in something you claim as fact without a link.
In this case, you are way off. The Japanese launched 108 planes in 7 minutes for one strike, less than half your claim.
Several sources say the Japanese had a total of 248 planes on all 4 carriers.

Not an accident or a fluke just a lie by you.

"While the Japanese were able to launch 108 aircraft in just seven minutes, it took Enterprise and Hornet over an hour to launch 117.[88] Spruance judged that the need to throw something at the enemy as soon as possible was greater than the need to coordinate the attack by aircraft of different types and speeds (fighters, bombers, and torpedo bombers)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway

Hey MUNCHY wasn't that battle the turning point in the Pacific war with the Japs...
Do you have the same twisted logic as SC that the Japs we the victims...
P.S. The Great Marianas Turkey shoot all but wiped out the Japs...

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by bb1961

Hey MUNCHY wasn't that battle the turning point in the Pacific war with the Japs...
Do you have the same twisted logic as SC that the Japs we the victims...
P.S. The Great Marianas Turkey shoot all but wiped out the Japs...

I guess now we will have to revise history and say the Japanese actually came off the better in the Battle of Midway which ultimately lead to Nimitz and MacArthur signing instruments of surrender aboard the Battleship Yamato in San Francisco Bay.

[Munchmasterman]

I don't have that book. Moot point. You provide no link or excerpts.

My first post pointed out your wildly inaccurate plane count. Anyone with general knowledge of the battle knows about a first strike on Midway Island and the ships or land target issue of how to arm the second.

The training the Japanese had was adequate but it was the constant practice since Pearl Harbour that made the real difference.

You have tried to combine training and drilling (experience). Training is one thing. Experience is another. Applying the training increases speed (you know, practice).

You decided to claim this inexperience caused the loss of Hornet's aircraft (of course being in the air too long makes you run out of gas). You claim the fighters took off first. Think about how stupid that idea is.
In Europe, they always launched the planes with a 150 mph speed advantage first, right? The fighters got there first and then waited an hour or 2 on the bombers, right? (HS)

That's a good one, launching the fighters first.
What an asshole.

I am including a link that says you are wrong. The dive bombers and fighters didn't participate in the morning attack. They got lost and never saw the Japanese. They followed an incorrect heading. The only planes from the Hornet that attacked the Japanese were the torpedo bombers. They were all shot down.

"The first planes to launch were the Hornet's dive-bombers at 7:02 am. Soon it was time for the 15 torpedo planes to take flight. For some of Torpedo 8’s pilots, it was the first time flying with a live torpedo. Within half an hour, the attack group of 35 dive-bombers, 15 torpedo planes, and 10 fighters was heading out to find the Japanese carriers. Strike groups were also launched from the nearby Enterprise and Yorktown."

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/20...do-squadron-8/

I've also included times from official Japanese records. It took 23 minutes to recover the first strike aircraft. No aircraft can be on deck during recovery. It takes about a minute to cycle the elevator plus a minimum of 20 minutes from when the last plane is brought up (15 min warm-up plus 5 arming).

"0726—recover CAP (one fighter)
0736—recover CAP (three fighters)
0750—recover CAP (two fighters)
0808—launch CAP (three fighters)
0832—launch CAP (four fighters)
0837–0900—recover Midway attack force plus three CAP fighters 0910—recover CAP (one fighter

https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cg...ext=nwc-review

Hiryu launched the final 2 strikes. The first strike followed our planes back to the carriers.
The second strike showed up approximately one hour later. Which means it took about an hour to prep the second strike without any recovery time. 45 minutes plus 23 used to recover the first strike equals approximately 1 hour.

So much for your "45 minutes" is bullshit claim.

"Hiryū, the sole surviving Japanese aircraft carrier, wasted little time in counterattacking.Hiryū's first attack wave, consisting of 18D3Asand six fighter escorts, followed the retreating American aircraft and attacked the first carrier they encountered,Yorktown, hitting her with three bombs, which blew a hole in the deck, snuffed out all but one of her boilers,[116]and destroyed one anti-aircraft mount. The damage also forced Admiral Fletcher to move his command staff to the heavy cruiser Astoria. Damage control parties were able to temporarily patch the flight deck and restore power to several boilers within an hour, giving her a speed of 19 knots (35km/h; 22mph) and enabling her to resume air operations. Thirteen Japanese dive bombers and three escorting fighters were lost in this attack (two escorting fighters turned back early after they were damaged attacking some of Enterprise's SBDs returning from their attack on the Japanese carriers).[117]
Approximately one hour later,Hiryū's second attack wave, consisting of ten B5Ns and six escorting A6Ms, arrived over Yorktown; the repair efforts had been so effective that the Japanese pilots assumed thatYorktownmust be a different, undamaged carrier.[118]They attacked, cripplingYorktownwith two torpedoes; she lost all power and developed a 23-degree list to port. Five torpedo bombers and two fighters were shot down in this attack.[119]
News of the two strikes, with the mistaken reports that each had sunk an American carrier, greatly improved Japanese morale. The few surviving aircraft were all recovered aboardHiryū. Despite the heavy losses, the Japanese believed that they could scrape together enough aircraft for one more strike against what they believed to be the only remaining American carrier.[120]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway

And a further note on Japanese training (sure would have been nice to have another deck);

"Historians Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully believe that by combining the surviving aircraft and pilots from Shōkaku and Zuikaku, it is likely that Zuikaku could have been equipped with almost a full composite air group. They also note that doing so would have violated Japanese carrier doctrine, which stressed that carriers and their airgroups must train as a single unit (in contrast, American air squadrons were considered interchangeable between carriers). In any case, the Japanese apparently made no serious attempt to get Zuikaku ready for the forthcoming battle.[39]"

I've posted links to back up my claims. You keep chanting bullshit without refuting my sources or providing links for yours.
You claim your 150% blunder being pointed out was a straw man. Bullshit.
Yes, 4 decks can get more aircraft into the air quicker than 3.

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

My original post was never a comparison between what the Japanese did and how the the U.S. did in the same battle, it was merely a statement of fact that the Japanese trained to a high level of proficiency to perform the same kind of mission -- the "Elephant Walk" moving from the staging position to an actual launch -- that was being practiced by the U.S.A.F. in Utah last week. Then along you come with your straw man bullshit.

The authors of the book, Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully, cited by the Wiki editor DO make that comparison and note that the Enterprise and Hornet launches were poor in comparison to what the Japanese did while they praised the efficiency of the Yorktown. Maybe be your dumb-ass should ACTUALLY read what Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully wrote rather than try to debate with the Reader's Digest version you see at Wiki.

Just like the Japanese, these three U.S. carriers already had their planes readied and staged on the flight deck. So your notion that the Japanese had some kind of advantage is bullshit.

Your reference to the forty-five minutes Nagumo needed is also bullshit. That forty-five minutes Nagumo needed included the time Nagumo need to land the Midway strike-force that was already in the air and the elevator time to move those returning planes to the hangar decks and then -- AND THEN -- to move all of his readied planes from the hangar decks to the flight decks and then launch them. Your notion that you are comparing apples-to-apples is bullshit.

Furthermore, jackass, the Hornet's planes did splash because they'd been in the air too long. The fighters, which had the shortest turn around time, were launched first and waited an hour for the TBFs and SBDs, which had a longer turn around times. That additional hour of fuel would have gotten most of them home. As it was, all of those fighters splashed. Maybe be your dumb-ass should ACTUALLY read the fucking book rather than try to debate with the Reader's Digest version you see at Wiki. Total bullshit. They went the wrong way and went too far.

Regarding Coral Sea, notice how a transfer of aircrews from the Zuikaku to the Shōkaku violated Japanese doctrine and was a command decision and is, therefore, irrelevant in regards to the proficiency of the aircrews at launching. The Japanese could have had four additional carriers for the carrier battle at Midway: five counting the Zuikaku. If your dumb-ass had ACTUALLY read the fucking book rather than try to argue with the Reader's Digest version you see at Wiki, you'd know that. Wrong again. The other 4 had other taskings. The Zuikaku was sitting idol because of doctrine that shows the inflexibility of Japanese training.

"Historians Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully believe that by combining the surviving aircraft and pilots from Shōkaku and Zuikaku, it is likely that Zuikaku could have been equipped with almost a full composite air group. They also note that doing so would have violated Japanese carrier doctrine, which stressed that carriers and their airgroups must train as a single unit (in contrast, American air squadrons were considered interchangeable between carriers). In any case, the Japanese apparently made no serious attempt to get Zuikaku ready for the forthcoming battle.[39]"


And none of your bullshit detracts from the fact that training, training, training enabled the Japanese to perform that part of their mission with great proficiency, and similar training, training, training by the U.S.A.F. will give U.S. crews the same degree of proficiency. You train to learn the skill. Once you learn the skill then you drill, drill, drill to gain proficiency

Do you think that "elephant walk" was learned the week before they did it? Of course not. Were they still learning how to do it? You wouldn't have seen it if they couldn't do it.
No moron, they were practicing what they had learned. And they'll continue to practice to stay sharp.


This just in from the guy who sucks dick because he likes the taste.
Sorry, it never occours to me to drink like you.

Originally Posted by lustylad

Wow!!

It takes a special kind of jackass to call someone a liar after he admits he made an honest mistake.

You must be a miserable human being, manmuncher. I feel sorry for you.

Once in a while, as therapy, you would do well to pour another double scotch and remind yourself of what John Riggins said to Sandra Day O'Connor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...osen-up-sandy/

Another pointless post about something you pulled from your ass. I didn't say any of that.
Probably be best if you just STFU.

Midway was a major victory but there were more major battles to come. Like Leyte Gulf, the Battle of the Philippine Sea, Santa Cruz

Originally Posted by bb1961

Hey MUNCHY wasn't that battle the turning point in the Pacific war with the Japs...
Do you have the same twisted logic as SC that the Japs we the victims...
P.S. The Great Marianas Turkey shoot all but wiped out the Japs...

What the fuck are you talking about?
Another babbler.

Originally Posted by Jackie S

I guess now we will have to revise history and say the Japanese actually came off the better in the Battle of Midway which ultimately lead to Nimitz and MacArthur signing instruments of surrender aboard the Battleship Yamato in San Francisco Bay.

You people love to play fast and loose with the truth.
You put words in other people's mouths while putting dicks in your own.
Your words might be good enough for trumpys but without proof, they're just more of the 13000 + lies you worship.

[oeb11]

mm-You people love to play fast and loose with the truth.
You put words in other people's mouths while putting dicks in your own.


Truer words about the DPST's were never written
Thank you - mm.



Try posting on topic, for a change.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Munchmasterman

I don't have that book. Moot point. You provide no link or excerpts.

My first post pointed out your wildly inaccurate plane count. Anyone with general knowledge of the battle knows about a first strike on Midway Island and the ships or land target issue of how to arm the second.

The training the Japanese had was adequate but it was the constant practice since Pearl Harbour that made the real difference.

You have tried to combine training and drilling (experience). Training is one thing. Experience is another. Applying the training increases speed (you know, practice).

You decided to claim this inexperience caused the loss of Hornet's aircraft (of course being in the air too long makes you run out of gas). You claim the fighters took off first. Think about how stupid that idea is.
In Europe, they always launched the planes with a 150 mph speed advantage first, right? The fighters got there first and then waited an hour or 2 on the bombers, right? (HS)

That's a good one, launching the fighters first.
What an asshole.

I am including a link that says you are wrong. The dive bombers and fighters didn't participate in the morning attack. They got lost and never saw the Japanese. They followed an incorrect heading. The only planes from the Hornet that attacked the Japanese were the torpedo bombers. They were all shot down.

"The first planes to launch were the Hornet's dive-bombers at 7:02 am. Soon it was time for the 15 torpedo planes to take flight. For some of Torpedo 8’s pilots, it was the first time flying with a live torpedo. Within half an hour, the attack group of 35 dive-bombers, 15 torpedo planes, and 10 fighters was heading out to find the Japanese carriers. Strike groups were also launched from the nearby Enterprise and Yorktown."

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/20...do-squadron-8/

I've also included times from official Japanese records. It took 23 minutes to recover the first strike aircraft. No aircraft can be on deck during recovery. It takes about a minute to cycle the elevator plus a minimum of 20 minutes from when the last plane is brought up (15 min warm-up plus 5 arming).

"0726—recover CAP (one fighter)
0736—recover CAP (three fighters)
0750—recover CAP (two fighters)
0808—launch CAP (three fighters)
0832—launch CAP (four fighters)
0837–0900—recover Midway attack force plus three CAP fighters 0910—recover CAP (one fighter

https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cg...ext=nwc-review

Hiryu launched the final 2 strikes. The first strike followed our planes back to the carriers.
The second strike showed up approximately one hour later. Which means it took about an hour to prep the second strike without any recovery time. 45 minutes plus 23 used to recover the first strike equals approximately 1 hour.

So much for your "45 minutes" is bullshit claim.

"Hiryū, the sole surviving Japanese aircraft carrier, wasted little time in counterattacking.Hiryū's first attack wave, consisting of 18D3Asand six fighter escorts, followed the retreating American aircraft and attacked the first carrier they encountered,Yorktown, hitting her with three bombs, which blew a hole in the deck, snuffed out all but one of her boilers,[116]and destroyed one anti-aircraft mount. The damage also forced Admiral Fletcher to move his command staff to the heavy cruiser Astoria. Damage control parties were able to temporarily patch the flight deck and restore power to several boilers within an hour, giving her a speed of 19 knots (35km/h; 22mph) and enabling her to resume air operations. Thirteen Japanese dive bombers and three escorting fighters were lost in this attack (two escorting fighters turned back early after they were damaged attacking some of Enterprise's SBDs returning from their attack on the Japanese carriers).[117]
Approximately one hour later,Hiryū's second attack wave, consisting of ten B5Ns and six escorting A6Ms, arrived over Yorktown; the repair efforts had been so effective that the Japanese pilots assumed thatYorktownmust be a different, undamaged carrier.[118]They attacked, cripplingYorktownwith two torpedoes; she lost all power and developed a 23-degree list to port. Five torpedo bombers and two fighters were shot down in this attack.[119]
News of the two strikes, with the mistaken reports that each had sunk an American carrier, greatly improved Japanese morale. The few surviving aircraft were all recovered aboardHiryū. Despite the heavy losses, the Japanese believed that they could scrape together enough aircraft for one more strike against what they believed to be the only remaining American carrier.[120]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway

And a further note on Japanese training (sure would have been nice to have another deck);

"Historians Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully believe that by combining the surviving aircraft and pilots from Shōkaku and Zuikaku, it is likely that Zuikaku could have been equipped with almost a full composite air group. They also note that doing so would have violated Japanese carrier doctrine, which stressed that carriers and their airgroups must train as a single unit (in contrast, American air squadrons were considered interchangeable between carriers). In any case, the Japanese apparently made no serious attempt to get Zuikaku ready for the forthcoming battle.[39]"

I've posted links to back up my claims. You keep chanting bullshit without refuting my sources or providing links for yours.
You claim your 150% blunder being pointed out was a straw man. Bullshit.
Yes, 4 decks can get more aircraft into the air quicker than 3.
Do you think that "elephant walk" was learned the week before they did it? Of course not. Were they still learning how to do it? You wouldn't have seen it if they couldn't do it.
No moron, they were practicing what they had learned. And they'll continue to practice to stay sharp.


This just in from the guy who sucks dick because he likes the taste.
Sorry, it never occours to me to drink like you.

Another pointless post about something you pulled from your ass. I didn't say any of that.
Probably be best if you just STFU.

Midway was a major victory but there were more major battles to come. Like Leyte Gulf, the Battle of the Philippine Sea, Santa Cruz

What the fuck are you talking about?
Another babbler.
You people love to play fast and loose with the truth.
You put words in other people's mouths while putting dicks in your own.
Your words might be good enough for trumpys but without proof, they're just more of the 13000 + lies you worship.

Your ignorant ass still hasn't read the book your sources are based on; so, you haven't a fucking clue as to what the authors present in their analyses.

“Hornet’s performance was even worse [than the Enterprise]. Captain Mitscher, despite his experience, inexplicably decided to position his fighters in the first half of his first spot, followed by the SBDs and then half of the TBDs. Once these aircraft were aloft, the remainder of the torpedo planes would be spotted and launched. Forty-five minutes later, this is exactly what had transpired, leaving the fighters was just that much less combat radius.” (p. 174, Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway by Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully).

“By around 0900, the situation is getting serious; many of the aircraft were beginning to run low on fuel. The Wildcats, having been up the longest, were the first to reach the point of literally no return, and at 0915 they turned for home…. One by one, starting at around 1015, they began running out of fuel and ditching individually or in small groups. By 1050 the last of them had gone in the drink” (p. 272, Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway by Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully).

It was that fucking margin that led to the planes splashing, you ignorant dodo. If they hadn't spent that fuel circling the carriers waiting, those fighters damn well would have had enough fuel to make it back, jackass.

And just like the dim-retard jackasses in Congress, you have seized on one phrase out of context and fabricated a straw man argument that is completely divorced from the intent of the original message.

Originally Posted by Jackie S

I guess now we will have to revise history and say the Japanese actually came off the better in the Battle of Midway which ultimately lead to Nimitz and MacArthur signing instruments of surrender aboard the Battleship Yamato in San Francisco Bay.

The Battle of Midway was not the major turning point in the Pacific War that subsequent history has purported it to be. The U.S. was not outnumbered in aircraft when the complement stationed at Midway is factored into the account. The Japanese did outnumber the U.S. in number of ships and in the number of carriers, but the Japanese carriers only mustered a handful more aircraft than the three U.S. carriers in the battle. The U.S. had a greater number of aircraft when those on Midway are factored in. A U.S. loss at Midway would have prolonged the war by 18 to 24 months, but the Japanese were always destined to lose the war unless Germany prevailed in Europe. The real turning point is arguably the Battle of Guadalcanal. Had the Japanese won that battle, the "Europe first" crowd would have robbed the Pacific theater of men, ships, planes and other war materiel to conduct offensive operations until after the war in Europe was finished.

[oeb11]

It ain't the Facts the DPST's adhere to
It is the Narrative "Truth" spouted by their elderly white faced nominees - supposedly representing their "plantation" of racial diversity!

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

And just like the dim-retard jackasses in Congress, you have seized on one phrase out of context and fabricated a straw man argument that is completely divorced from the intent of the original.....

.

aint it the truff!!

dims do that with regularity

seize on a phrase, take it out of context, divorce it from its intended meaning, set up straw men and then proceed to knock them down with haughty virtuousness

[bambino]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Wow!!

It takes a special kind of jackass to call someone a liar after he admits he made an honest mistake.

You must be a miserable human being, manmuncher. I feel sorry for you.

Once in a while, as therapy, you would do well to pour another double scotch and remind yourself of what John Riggins said to Sandra Day O'Connor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...osen-up-sandy/

Manmuncher can’t afford scotch. He sits under a bridge swigging on a bottle of Thunderbird. Wrapped tightly in a brown paper bag.