Anyone care to tell me what's wrong with this?

[Pink Floyd]

JD, running out exceptions does not alter statistics. I am for free readily available abortions. The United States leads the world in the number of single parent households. Fathers have been replaced by Baby Daddies who have no responsibility. Those are facts. The degeneration of our society is accelerating at an amazing clip. A low income woman cannot afford an abortion so they sink further into poverty. We can't totally stop this trend, because culture must also be changed, but we can give them an escape route.

Calling me a liberal is ludicrous because I embrace law and order, self reliance and capitalism. I oppose Obamacare, welfare, and anything else that grants more power to the central government. I also totally support embryonic stem cell research and abortion. Unlike many others I don't have the need to walk in lockstep with what is considered liberal or conservative. I am not a Republican nor a Democrat. Any American who can say Obama or Romney were the most qualified to lead our nation simply have ceased to function as thinking individuals. Those were our choices - frightening to think people actually embraced those two.

While I oppose Socialism, from a strategic standpoint they are one-upping the capitalists by building a huge voter base. America will be a socialist country, I have no doubt. The average American sees the avarice that exists with the upper class, and a natural WTF attitude sets in. Republicans have ignored human nature and banked all their hopes on religion, and it has failed. The tax laws have been twisted to favor the rich, with exemptions that the average person will never be able to use. I have seen many millionaires who pay less taxes than I do. Want and need will trump avarice every time. Redistribution of wealth is a very powerful tool to bring about social change. Once I got away from party politics it was much easier to be objective. I cannot change things but I can sure as hell see what is going on.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by FlectiNonFrangi

JD, running out exceptions does not alter statistics. I am for free readily available abortions. The United States leads the world in the number of single parent households. Fathers have been replaced by Baby Daddies who have no responsibility. Those are facts. The degeneration of our society is accelerating at an amazing clip. A low income woman cannot afford an abortion so they sink further into poverty. We can't totally stop this trend, because culture must also be changed, but we can give them an escape route.

Calling me a liberal is ludicrous because I embrace law and order, self reliance and capitalism. I oppose Obamacare, welfare, and anything else that grants more power to the central government. I also totally support embryonic stem cell research and abortion. Unlike many others I don't have the need to walk in lockstep with what is considered liberal or conservative. I am not a Republican nor a Democrat. Any American who can say Obama or Romney were the most qualified to lead our nation simply have ceased to function as thinking individuals. Those were our choices - frightening to think people actually embraced those two.

While I oppose Socialism, from a strategic standpoint they are one-upping the capitalists by building a huge voter base. America will be a socialist country, I have no doubt. The average American sees the avarice that exists with the upper class, and a natural WTF attitude sets in. Republicans have ignored human nature and banked all their hopes on religion, and it has failed. The tax laws have been twisted to favor the rich, with exemptions that the average person will never be able to use. I have seen many millionaires who pay less taxes than I do. Want and need will trump avarice every time. Redistribution of wealth is a very powerful tool to bring about social change. Once I got away from party politics it was much easier to be objective. I cannot change things but I can sure as hell see what is going on.

Apparently you do not see how the lib-retards have ridiculed and obliterated socially responsible behavior, often borne in religiousness, and have thusly created a society of enablers -- witting participants or not -- which condones socially irresponsible behavior with permissive, government programs. BTW, condoms are considerably less expensive than abortions, but that would require socially responsible behavior from socially irresponsible people.

[JD Barleycorn]

I never called you a liberal. I spoke of the left and if you are not one of them then move on. I did not cite exceptions, I cited practice, wide spread practice. If abortion is so effective at reducing crime, poverty, and gangs of lawless youths running amuck.....well, what can you say? I guess we need to stop having children completely or as you propose force the poor (can you define that?) to stop having children.

To me this is about rights and getting truthful information out there. It is a person contained within and that person has certain rights. Now some people will point to the death penalty and smile. Okay, if you give that unborn child the same rights and process as a accused murderer then you may have a point. Of course, by then the child is crapping and crying somewhere by that time. If a murderer is found guilty and sentenced to die that same child is now about to enter college, the military, or the work force. (I will even allow, prison since you think that ALL unwanted children go there anyway).

[Pink Floyd]

I B, it is precisely because I do see the effects of programs like the Great Society that I advocate free abortions. Is the decay of American society reversible by any means that you know of? White liberals have proven to be a curse on America. They have created a dependent class which soon threatens to become the majority, where they can basically vote themselves more benefits. Do not ignore the effect destructive cultures play.

[Pink Floyd]

J D, you just took my comment about making abortions free, and twisted it into forced abortions. Abortion is not effective in reducing crime because it is too expensive for a lot of women.

The ability to breed does not signal an ability to parent. What is the mercy of putting a child in the hands of a crack addict, or somebody strung out on meth? This may make you feel good about yourself, but it does nothing for the child. Would you abort a killer if you could go back in time and save an innocents life.

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I never called you a liberal. I spoke of the left and if you are not one of them then move on. I did not cite exceptions, I cited practice, wide spread practice. If abortion is so effective at reducing crime, poverty, and gangs of lawless youths running amuck.....well, what can you say? I guess we need to stop having children completely or as you propose force the poor (can you define that?) to stop having children.

To me this is about rights and getting truthful information out there. It is a person contained within and that person has certain rights. Now some people will point to the death penalty and smile. Okay, if you give that unborn child the same rights and process as a accused murderer then you may have a point. Of course, by then the child is crapping and crying somewhere by that time. If a murderer is found guilty and sentenced to die that same child is now about to enter college, the military, or the work force. (I will even allow, prison since you think that ALL unwanted children go there anyway).

Originally Posted by FlectiNonFrangi

I B, it is precisely because I do see the effects of programs like the Great Society that I advocate free abortions. Is the decay of American society reversible by any means that you know of? White liberals have proven to be a curse on America. They have created a dependent class which soon threatens to become the majority, where they can basically vote themselves more benefits. Do not ignore the effect destructive cultures play.

I personally oppose abortion. But, unfortunately, the evidence is pretty overwhelming that abortions DOES reduce crime.

Goggle Freakonomics and "abortion reduces crimes" and read the articles.

Here is one:

http://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/a...d-you-believe/

Fifteen years after Roe v. Wade, crime began to drop nationwide, mostly among the cohort then entering their teens.

More importantly, some states legalized abortion 3 years before Roe and those states saw crime begin to drop 3 years before the rest of the country.

The changes in police tactics and mandatory prison sentences also helped reduce crime, but the overwhelming factor was LESS unwanted children.

Here is a four and a half minute video on the same topic. Watch it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk6gOeggViw

It is pretty convincing.

[JD Barleycorn]

I am familiar with the argue put forth in Freakonomica but lets play some verbal and philosophical judo. Since black children are the most likely to be aborted and abortion reduces crime (wait for it...) are you saying that black people are predisposed to commit crimes?


Anyway my argument has nothing to do with the above, nothing to do with future crime, or future societal parasites. This is about a natural right to life. What you do with it is up to you. Don't ask nonsensical questions like "if you could go back in time...". We can't and it is not worth bringing up.

Let me ask you this, if parents were better prepared and had more opportunities do you think they children would be less inclined to commit crimes? I'll take it you agree with that statement and point out that the best solution is many times the most difficult.