Stop Feminist Violence against sexworkers

[NinaBrooke]

“ The European Women’s Lobby (EWL) has been for years delivering a clear political statement committed to work towards a Europe free from prostitution, by supporting key abolitionist principles which state that the prostitution of women and girls constitutes a fundamental violation of women’s human rights, a serious form of male violence against women, and a key obstacle to gender equality in our societies. The EWL Centre on violence against women is now working on an EWL campaign to deliver a strong message towards a Europe free from prostitution.”


And here is the answer to said campaign:

"No sex worker, no matter how they came to the sex industry, could mistake what this fist means. It means violence. No doubt the euro feminists fantasise about the punch they are recommending landing on bad men – the fantasy pimps of their imagination – and helping innocent girl victims who also live in their imaginations. But every sex worker knows that every punch lands on her /him no matter what fantasies are in the heads of the punch throwers."

http://plri.wordpress.com/2010/11/09...t-sex-workers/

[John Bull]

How about this for the EWL? They quit their bitching and make a pact to blow 10 guys a day free. That will put all the prostitutes out of business peacefully and they'll get a belly full of sperm as a reward.

Oh chit - I forgot, the EWL is probably made up mostly of dedicated dykes so the above won't work. Well OK! How about this? They make a pact to lick 10 prostitutes pussies a day. That way the prostitutes won't have time to work and the EWL girls will get satisfied w/o violence.

[Liliana]

Feminism =/= man hating OR dykes. Jeez...

[daddybearj]

This looks like a misguided use of the libertarian law-as-coercion concept. I think a strong argument could be made that sex work laws as they now stand already bring violence toward sex workers, and that it's the place of law to empower sex workers against the male supremacy currently at work.

[John Bull]

Originally Posted by Liliana

Feminism =/= man hating OR dykes. Jeez...

“ The European Women’s Lobby (EWL) has been for years delivering a clear political statement committed to work towards a Europe free from prostitution,

Please Liliana, let's not have a knee jerk reaction to an admittedly nasty depiction of the EWL by myself. Would you rather I said they were wonderful, upstanding critters just because they were women? What about your sisters they are harming? I think you need to re-think.

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Liliana

Feminism =/= man hating OR dykes. Jeez...

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssus i was just writing one of my novels as answer when my internet crashed. More tomorrow i am too tired to type that stuff in again...... .. :-(.

Short notice, I agree that feminism are not man haters /dykes. That is something i consider correct for several reasons i will point out tomorrow.. today... .
More tomorrrow... :-)

[guest010313]

Originally Posted by daddybearj

This looks like a misguided use of the libertarian law-as-coercion concept. I think a strong argument could be made that sex work laws as they now stand already bring violence toward sex workers, and that it's the place of law to empower sex workers against the male supremacy currently at work.

Perhaps you mean liberal and not libertarian? If you did mean libertarian please expand.

[Leah Ireland]

Yeah really Nina. When I lived in Europe it was very understood amongst a lot of feminists and dykes that escorting existed and was a woman's right of survival, basically.

Particularly with all the dead beat dads/sperm donors that abound.


At the time it was understood that most escorts were single mothers - has that situation changed???

[woodyboyd]

Originally Posted by Liliana

Feminism =/= man hating OR dykes. Jeez...

The European Women’s Lobby (EWL).... state that the prostitution of women... is a serious form of male violence against women.

Liliana, these women aren't feminists. Feminists were for equality and female empowerment. These women are saying that all men who are your customers are rapists. They are also saying that you are so stupid that your giving informed consent doesn't matter and that you didn't chose this profession but were forced into it.

They aren't feminists. They are feminazis whose goal in life is to imprison all men and rule over other women.

[ForumPoster]

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

The European Women’s Lobby (EWL).... state that the prostitution of women... is a serious form of male violence against women.

Liliana, these women aren't feminists. Feminists were for equality and female empowerment. These women are saying that all men who are your customers are rapists. They are also saying that you are so stupid that your giving informed consent doesn't matter and that you didn't chose this profession but were forced into it.

They aren't feminists. They are feminazis whose goal in life is to imprison all men and rule over other women.

Marilyn Monroe said it best :

“Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition.”

[1234NiceGuy]

Originally Posted by Sensual Lina

Marilyn Monroe said it best :

“Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition.”

How can two different things be equal? They can't. You can treat them fairly, but equality is a misnomer. Not even any two men are created equal.

[NinaBrooke]

There are different streams in feminism: and the pornography/prostitution debatte has split them up into different "houses" of thought. Some advocate for a right of choice and some see within their philosophy that there are no choices if you work these jobs and it caters to the men and not the women.

I think that it`s all a matter of viewpoint. There might well be forms of prostitution that cater to men. And forms of pornography. But so are other things in life. I have never seen someone advocating against the system of "Marriage" , just because some of them are containing violence against women.
(Or - maybe here i am wrong - alternative agendas, i think, have made points against the patriarchal form or marriage, but never to abolish it completely...).

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by Leah Ireland

Yeah really Nina. When I lived in Europe it was very understood amongst a lot of feminists and dykes that escorting existed and was a woman's right of survival, basically.


At the time it was understood that most escorts were single mothers - has that situation changed???

It depends which stream of feminism they relate to. (first , second wave, and sex positive or such feminisms)

I personally had feminists attacking me for working as an escort and trying to get me out of that business or to convince me that there must be something wrong with me because i do it. Or that i am submissive to men. Or whatnot.

So, it depends. With the SlutWalk organizations in Europe this was a particular hassle too. The pro and cons against the use of the word "slut" were made. And further, if someone should include prostitution organizations, too. So, yes there is still debatte as said above. Interestingly enough, none of the people who organized SlutWalks in Europe asked "Pro - Escort - Organizations" for financial support.I tried to make that issue prominent, but no one really acted upon it. And you should see all the people behind such organizations on how they all try to "win" over the SlutWalk for their own agendas. Its mindboggling. I tried to advocate for "no sponsoring" to avoid political bias, but of course, except for Lisboa and Porto, not so much was happening in that direction. I assume it was because of "bad press". Only the regular caritative mainstream thingies were asked for sponsoring. And once you are sponsored, you are part of the political agenda the sponsors support and you can`t take other sponsors that do not concurr with their conclusions... I don`t know how it has been handled in different cities than Vienna, Lisboa and Porto, but i know for sure with these cities it was a point in discussion. I might assume in Berlin it was different, Berlin is very open to many views - similar to NYC or San Francisco.


So - yes, you see, it is still a long way from talking to action.

[Claudia Christophe]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

I have never seen someone advocating against the system of "Marriage" , just because some of them are containing violence against women.
(Or - maybe here i am wrong - alternative agendas, i think, have made points against the patriarchal form or marriage, but never to abolish it completely...).

Our mutual friend Maggie McNeill had a post full of quotes from the abolitionists and a couple put marriage (and the need for it to be abolished) in the same boat as prostitution. Or at least taking their words to a logical conclusion, we'd end up at a point where marriage should be abolished as well due to collusion with the much afeared male sexuality.

My 'favorite' comes from Sheila Jeffreys: "When a woman reaches orgasm with a man, she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression..." Takes a truly sick and disturbed mind to make orgasms a tool of "oppression".

[anaximander]

Originally Posted by Sensual Lina

Marilyn Monroe said it best :

“Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition.”

No doubt. Women are far more sophisticated
and complex than we rougish men.
Why any woman wants a mans burden
is beyond me. We are disposable heroes.

Feminism is uglygirls gone political.
It's inherently evil.

Something to consider with sheik hussein trying
to impose european style socialism.
What is to keep the american socialists from
bullying US working girls? They have a monkey
see monkey do response to their eurotrash
inbred cousins. Politically it's inert.
If the socialist democrats initiate it,
the evengelical republicans won't fight it.

This is potentially very, very bad.
I don't want to think this through to
it's conclusion. It's ugly all the way.