Trump Determined to be a Fraud

[dilbert firestorm]

NY judge dismissed 80% of the case due to statue of limitations of being too old.

That certainly weakens her case.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by winn dixie

Trump is a walking talking total fraud.

Par for course with him. Been demonstrated ad infinitum.

Originally Posted by Levianon17

I doubt Trump even cares. He has more tricks up his sleeve than David Copperfield.

So true.

Originally Posted by Salty Again

And a battery of Appeals, also.

It's the American way... ...

#### Salty

Tried and true gay Roy Cohn approach.
That and throwing the biggest temper tantrum that makes the terrible twos look like slumber time.

Originally Posted by Ripmany

His business is mess true he better simply flying if get out jail time he can pay the fine but he better downsize. If only 250 million. Biden had 10 billion to Trump 900 million campaign Money. All the Democrats will wake their ass with his toilet paper give him a donation..

The voters will tell the tale at election time.

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Actually, he just a fraud. No crazy conspiracy.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Jackie S

So the Judge doesn’t think Trump’s holdings were not as valuable as he claimed in order to secure loans.

This charade will end up in an appeals court where Trump will win. Why? Simple.

He got the loans

Not that the judge doesn't think. It was determined by documents presented to court. Donny thought beating his chest and grimancing (sp) would be enough for the court. But he was mistaken in thinking the judge was sitting on the court of public opinion.

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Were the properties in question not appraised by an independent third party?

Originally Posted by Tiny

I don’t think so.

https://reason.com/2023/09/27/trumps...d-for-reality/

Seeing that #HeWhoShallBeNamed is a *professional* in the realty world, how could he be wrong in over valuing his personal home by three times over in square footage?
Speaks volumes for the rest of the properties in question.

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

That’s how a summary judgment works. You file a motion and memorandum, a list of uncontested facts, a list of contested facts, attach affidavits, depositions and other documentary evidence. The opposing side does similarly. The judge decides whether the information presented establishes the facts and law sufficient that there are no material facts requiring trial and either renders a decision or says - this needs to go to a jury.

In this case the judge made that decision based on what was presented by both sides and produced a 45 page decision.

^^^THIS!!!^^^ You can cry/moan/groan/hold-your-breath-til-blue but when it comes to court day, it comes down to what you present in court. Not in tweets or mouthing off outside of court. It gets old doing so.

Originally Posted by FesteredUncle

Seems to me that the main fraudsters in the current case are the AG and Judge. Frankly, I don't see their qualifications to determine commercial real estate valuations.

It would appear they used Zillow . com to arrive at their evaluation of up to 19-$24M. However, one must also remember that the same Zillow claimed Trump xfered the property valued at $420M to his son.Then later said ooops, in tiny-small print and updated their website to no fan fare..

And then there are the details. Zillow is showing the property as 5,200-ish square feet in size. Coincidentally, a nearby property of about the same size with 5 bedroom recently sold for $14M and the property adjacent to Mar-a-Lago is a 2 acre tract with no beach access and no improvements (buildings) listed for $200M.

In review, Mar-a-Lago is on 17-20 acres, has water on two sides, with 2 acres of beaches and over 56,000 sq ft, 55 bedrooms, 38 bathrooms and an 1,800 sq ft dinning room, is a commercial parcel (business) and so much more. Oh sure! Probably just typos in the current Zillow listing. Yeah, right!

Regardless, if I were going into a court case involving the valuation of commercial real estate, I would bring in a world renowned and highly successful developer of commercial real estate, ala Donald J Trump, over two dick-head partisan hacks with zero knowledge in real estate or real estate transactions any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Just remember, it is not a bank or insurance company or purchaser of any real estate bringing suit here. It is brought by two dick-head partisan hacks with zero knowledge in real estate or real estate transactions.

Originally Posted by royamcr

Lol geez you really that dumb to think they opened zillow and went with it?

I guess he is. NY has a website that you can see the court dockets and evidence produced for the cases. He seems to not know that.

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... But THIS Judge is not doing that.
The affidavits, testimony and other documentary evidence
shows that he grossly undervalued Trump's Mar-a-Largo property.

#### Salty

Speaking of reviewing the evidence that is presented in court.... Wait... It's NaCl. He has an unweaving history of ignoring facts presented in trials.

[1blackman1]

Doug Larson, who works for the real estate firm Newmark, was listed in a series of Trump Organization documents as having appraised properties like 40 Wall Street, Trump Tower, and the retail space adjoining Trump Tower known as "Niketown." However, under oath he testified that he never did the listed work.

"Is it fair to say that Mr. Trump valued Trump Tower at $526 million in conjunction with you?" said Ladov. "No, that is incorrect," Larson replied.

"Were you aware that Mr. McConney was citing you as a valuation source in his work papers?" Ladov followed up. "No, I was not," said Larson, clarifying he did not assess Trump Tower, Niketown, or 40 Wall Street.


Anyone surprised that Trump and the idiot sons lied on forms submitted to banks regarding appraised values of their properties? Sure this comes as no surprise to anyone.

Looks like some overstatements were made regarding his assets as well.


Hawthorn, the chief accounting officer of the Trump Hotels division of the Trump Organization, testified at former President Donald Trump's civil fraud trial in New York that he "overstated" the value of the company's assets in 2018, reported ABC News on Monday.

According to the report, when a third-party accounting agency asked for the total amount of Trump's liquid assets, "Hawthorn said he consulted the financial statement that listed 'cash equivalents in excess of $290 million'." But New York Attorney General Letitia James alleges that 30 percent of those liquid assets were actually owned by Vornado Partnerships, a company with whom Trump had a partnership interest but was distinct from the Trump Organization, which was not disclosed on the statement.

I’m sure these were all simple errors and that he did not intend to a fraud.

[onthemovie]

Go Trump!!! Everyone does it. If you don't you're stupid. I claim I'm worth twice what I'm really worth on paper. The dimocrats are afraid of him. Biden is ten times the crook as Trump, and he's not even a good crook. They have hard evidence on him and his son

[eyecu2]

Originally Posted by onthemovie

Go Trump!!! Everyone does it. If you don't you're stupid. I claim I'm worth twice what I'm really worth on paper. The dimocrats are afraid of him. Biden is ten times the crook as Trump, and he's not even a good crook. They have hard evidence on him and his son

Thanks for the chuckle.

So far-

Trump has been indicted 4x and facing 91 felonies.

Biden- likes ice cream. 0 indictments, 0 crimes.

Math is hard,

being a fraud for Trump and his followers is easy.

[Salty Again]

... And yet - TRUMP surely continues to lead in the Polls! ...

#### Salty

[Jackie S]

Indictments are becoming cheap distractions.

Maybe the system needs overhauling.

Biased prosecutors take opinionated “evidence” before a bunch of biased citizens.

They can ruin lives with no reprecusdions.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

NY judge dismissed 80% of the case due to statue of limitations of being too old.

That certainly weakens her case.

That didn’t happen. Trump said it did, but it was bullshit.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by onthemovie

Go Trump!!! Everyone does it. If you don't you're stupid. I claim I'm worth twice what I'm really worth on paper. The dimocrats are afraid of him. Biden is ten times the crook as Trump, and he's not even a good crook. They have hard evidence on him and his son

This attitude is what's wrong with a large portion of the world and most of our politicians. There are those who game the system and those who don't. I respect those that work hard and pay their taxes. I bitch about the ones that game the system and then brag about it. Let's try to be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... And yet - TRUMP surely continues to lead in the Polls! ...

#### Salty

It's much to early to rely on polls, even though I am a firm believer of polls. Currently in most polls 15-20% of voters are "Undecided" which is huge, meaning a lot can change in the next year. Trump leads in most polls in Arizona and Georgia. Biden leads in most polls in Michigan and Wisconsin. Polls in Pennsylvania are mixed. Trump must win 3 of those 5 states to win.

Trump has a lot to lose in upcoming months with his trials. His downside is huge at this point in time.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by onthemovie

Go Trump!!! Everyone does it. If you don't you're stupid. I claim I'm worth twice what I'm really worth on paper. The dimocrats are afraid of him. Biden is ten times the crook as Trump, and he's not even a good crook. They have hard evidence on him and his son

If you apply for a loan and overestimate your net worth by 2 times what it actually is on the application, that is fraud.

"According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), making false statements on loan applications is a white-collar crime and is punishable by up to 30 years of imprisonment. While going to prison for lying on an application is rare, it can happen – and has happened."

https://www.google.com/search?q=lyin...hrome&ie=UTF-8

And no, there is no hard evidence against Joe Biden. The committee led by Comer has not come up with any tangible evidence as of this point in time, even though they are looking hard.

[Salty Again]

... The Banks didn't believe Trump "over-estimated"... But glad to
see you agree with FBI interpretation of the rules.
Is THAT the same FBI who told us Trump colluded with Russia?
And also told us that the Hunter laptop is fake and Russian dis-info?
... THAT same FBI??

Is the FBI really the Fraud??

... Hmmm... No "hard" evidence - and - No "tangible evidence"
against Joe Biden? ... So YOU then, Speed, surely must
believe the Joe Biden is telling the truth with all of this?

... Biden is the Fraud... Just like the FBI.

#### Salty

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... The Banks didn't believe Trump "over-estimated"... But glad to
see you agree with FBI interpretation of the rules.
Is THAT the same FBI who told us Trump colluded with Russia?
And also told us that the Hunter laptop is fake and Russian dis-info?
... THAT same FBI??

Is the FBI really the Fraud??

... Hmmm... No "hard" evidence - and - No "tangible evidence"
against Joe Biden? ... So YOU then, Speed, surely must
believe the Joe Biden is telling the truth with all of this?

... Biden is the Fraud... Just like the FBI.

#### Salty

I don't have to prove Biden innocent. You have to prove Biden guilty, and neither you nor anyone else has done so to date. Why can't Comer and the committee investigating Biden access the information you believe is so readily available?

In all honesty, I do not care much about the outcome of this trial or his Stormy Daniels trial. Even if found guilty, the impact to Trump's election campaign will be minimal. However, the trials in Florida, Georgia, and Washington, D.C., if Trump is convicted on a number of the counts against him, could go a long way in destroying his election chances.

[eyecu2]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

I don't have to prove Biden innocent. You have to prove Biden guilty, and neither you nor anyone else has done so to date. Why can't Comer and the committee investigating Biden access the information you believe is so readily available?

In all honesty, I do not care much about the outcome of this trial or his Stormy Daniels trial. Even if found guilty, the impact to Trump's election campaign will be minimal. However, the trials in Florida, Georgia, and Washington, D.C., if Trump is convicted on a number of the counts against him, could go a long way in destroying his election chances.

Facts are something that our conservative friends like to look past. And they minimize the fact that their leader broke not just one law, but mulitiple laws. They are all pouty lipped over the fact that the DOJ is holding diaper boy accountable. Because of the polls; the polls that due to a lack of intelligence, and anything more than a lemming mentality, republicans will follow the orange menace right over the cliff that he's ready to jump off of with his pending trials. When he gets convicted, they will likely still not change their support.

It will be up to the rest of 'Merica' to do the right thing and vote for the persons' who don't face formal charges, convictions and records of not following any laws.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by eyecu2

Thanks for the chuckle.

So far-

Trump has been indicted 4x and facing 91 felonies.

Biden- likes ice cream. 0 indictments, 0 crimes.

Math is hard,

being a fraud for Trump and his followers is easy.

Yup. Them repugs think if they ignore it, it will go away. Seems dem chickens be comin' a home to roost.

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... And yet - TRUMP surely continues to lead in the Polls! ...

#### Salty

Stay on topic salty. This thread is about trump defrauding the coffers of New York City. You already got one thread closed, don't shut this one down.

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

This attitude is what's wrong with a large portion of the world and most of our politicians. There are those who game the system and those who don't. I respect those that work hard and pay their taxes. I bitch about the ones that game the system and then brag about it. Let's try to be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem.

I've stated before the few reasons why I don't like him (think it is two.) He seems to think he can do whatever he likes with impunity. If I did the same thing, i'd be in jail. Looks like I might be wrong about this instance

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

If you apply for a loan and overestimate your net worth by 2 times what it actually is on the application, that is fraud.

"According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), making false statements on loan applications is a white-collar crime and is punishable by up to 30 years of imprisonment. While going to prison for lying on an application is rare, it can happen – and has happened."

https://www.google.com/search?q=lyin...hrome&ie=UTF-8

And no, there is no hard evidence against Joe Biden. The committee led by Comer has not come up with any tangible evidence as of this point in time, even though they are looking hard.

Originally Posted by Salty Again

... The Banks didn't believe Trump "over-estimated"... But glad to
see you agree with FBI interpretation of the rules.
Is THAT the same FBI who told us Trump colluded with Russia?
And also told us that the Hunter laptop is fake and Russian dis-info?
... THAT same FBI??

Is the FBI really the Fraud??

... Hmmm... No "hard" evidence - and - No "tangible evidence"
against Joe Biden? ... So YOU then, Speed, surely must
believe the Joe Biden is telling the truth with all of this?

... Biden is the Fraud... Just like the FBI.

#### Salty

It doesn't matter what the banks believe. You have a hard time comprehending that this is about intentional fraud. It is criminal, and the courts will show if so, to lie about your assets so as not to pay monies on them. It really is that simple. Don't believe me? Than the next time you pay your property tax, send them 10% of what they are asking. Tell us what happens.

Again, stay on topic. Thread is about fraud. You know. What donny&co was screaming about the election but never presented in 60+ court cases. Not Mueller, hunny b, easter bunny, etc.

Don't be pushing to get this thread closed because you don't like the facts being presented like the other thread you closed.

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

I don't have to prove Biden innocent. You have to prove Biden guilty, and neither you nor anyone else has done so to date. Why can't Comer and the committee investigating Biden access the information you believe is so readily available?

In all honesty, I do not care much about the outcome of this trial or his Stormy Daniels trial. Even if found guilty, the impact to Trump's election campaign will be minimal. However, the trials in Florida, Georgia, and Washington, D.C., if Trump is convicted on a number of the counts against him, could go a long way in destroying his election chances.

Originally Posted by eyecu2

Facts are something that our conservative friends like to look past. And they minimize the fact that their leader broke not just one law, but mulitiple laws. They are all pouty lipped over the fact that the DOJ is holding diaper boy accountable. Because of the polls; the polls that due to a lack of intelligence, and anything more than a lemming mentality, republicans will follow the orange menace right over the cliff that he's ready to jump off of with his pending trials. When he gets convicted, they will likely still not change their support.

It will be up to the rest of 'Merica' to do the right thing and vote for the persons' who don't face formal charges, convictions and records of not following any laws.

Eye, Speed, TxDot, thanks for your post that support what i've said on another thread and is apropos to this one. Facts that are presented in the proper forum (be they a hooker site or court of law) can not be ignored with off the cuff, intentionally duplicious (sp) remarks of those not wanting to believe them.