Buffett Speaks The Truth

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

What is it about our education system, or our political process, that leads folks to act in a way that is so clearly contrary to their economic interest. I've studied behavioral psychology and behavioral economics looking for an answer and can't find one. Their actions are at war with the general tenants of democracy and microeconomics. Why do they engage in this behavior. Does anyone have any theories? I'm truly asking because I'm frankly completely stumped on this one.

Originally Posted by WTF

I have racked my brain over this one too. Here is a great book on the general answer. People get a belief system into their head and no amount of facts will change certain beliefs for most folks. Just look a Christians, they think their God is better/only God. They think Muslims are going to hell because of their beliefs.

There is another book out that delves into political voting. Written in the sixties that answers your question but I can not find it since I moved. It is packed away but I will post it when I find it. Great question TTH.

http://www.google.com/search?q=the+b...rchBox&ie=&oe=

The book What's the Matter with Kansas? by Thomas Frank offers clear answers to your questions.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

It completely baffles me how the Republicans have conditioned the folks who are getting fucked by these tax cuts to make the fight for the ones who are benefiting from them. I'm a beneficiary of the Bush tax cuts, albeit not to the same degree as Buffet. One year, my taxes were cut by more than the amount that any non-lawyer in my firm makes as a result of the 4.6% cut from 39.6% to 35%. I didn't hire anybody. I didn't buy anything. I just stashed the extra money in an investment account, probably in a international stock fund.

Yet you've got all these folks who make far less in a year than I saved in that one year squealing like a pig stuck under a gate about how horrible it would be to raise the rate on other folks back to 39.6%, when in point of fact, it has not effect on them other than to lower the deficit or provide them more government services.

I'm to the point where I just don't worry about the debt or tax rates, in some respects. I get cuts one way, or interest rates rise the other way. Either way, I win. I haven't borrowed a dime in probably 15 years. I collect interest, I don't pay it. If the poor and the working class want to fuck themselves at my expense -- and apparently they do -- fuck it! I guess I'll let the dumb motherfuckers go ahead. But in my heart, I know it's a shame and bad for the country.

What is it about our education system, or our political process, that leads folks to act in a way that is so clearly contrary to their economic interest. I've studied behavioral psychology and behavioral economics looking for an answer and can't find one. Their actions are at war with the general tenants of democracy and microeconomics. Why do they engage in this behavior. Does anyone have any theories? I'm truly asking because I'm frankly completely stumped on this one.

there is no reason to be stumped. there are different philosophies.

you ponder why someone doesnt vote in their own economic interest as if some "right" to be voted for or some strong-armed tactic is in their interest or the promise of some benefit is in their interest, or a tax to be levied on others is to their benefit.

Some people believe those things, given by masters, or taken by force, plied upon as debt, promised now and to be paid later, things that dull the senses, never appreciated by the receivers, expected as due with an ever expanding churlishness, are not in our best interest.

take the riots in britain and greece, and the welfare states that cannot ultimately meet the measley promises of those who wish to be kings.
for tax as they will, and provide benefits as they can, soon enough the dispiriting of producers, even the spirit of entreprenuership in the most intrepid, can too become dull and instead of an expansion of prosperity, there remains only the vast "I want mine from you" mentality and there is, soon enough, no "you" left.

you have studied "behavorial" psychology and economics you say and to you it seems that any momentary increase one can garner or fleeting right or ability to vote oneself a benefit is only logical, and it puzzles you why some people don't. while it really is the height of illogic and short sighted and dulling.

it is possible to maintain all the form and appearance of a free republic while in fact become despotic.

tocqueville wondered if we shall arise every four years out of our torpor to elect our masters and then sink back into slavery.

we still have a glimmer of american Individualism, and there are those fighting to maintain it, not fighting for more benefits.

so someone making $50,000 per year just might not be resentful of someone making $20,000,000. maybe they are glad it is still possible and they know that the product of that person which has allowed the $20,000,000 to be made has benefited the community much more than all the taxes could ever do. maybe it is to our economic benefit to be as capitalistic as is possible. maybe socialism does dull the spirit and create a slavish torpor and a churlish craven people. maybe it harms the future of our children and grandchildren, and maybe even still some believe it.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

The book What's the Matter with Kansas? by Thomas Frank offers clear answers to your questions.

Hot damn, that is another gem!

Where you been El'Cappytan?

Missed your spot on posts around these parts!


What do you think about this guys thoughts? I think he is on to something by Georgie.

http://www.project-syndicate.org/com...goff83/English


But the real problem is that the global economy is badly overleveraged, and there is no quick escape without a scheme to transfer wealth from creditors to debtors, either through defaults, financial repression, or inflation.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

so someone making $50,000 per year just might not be resentful of someone making $20,000,000. maybe they are glad it is still possible and they know that the product of that person which has allowed the $20,000,000 to be made has benefited the community much more than all the taxes could ever do. maybe it is to our economic benefit to be as capitalistic as is possible. maybe socialism does dull the spirit and create a slavish torpor and a churlish craven people. maybe it harms the future of our children and grandchildren, and maybe even still some beleive it.

Maybe you are full of shit.

Go read those books and report back.

Nobody is resentful of anyone making 20mil but some folks do not like the fact that the 20mil person supports wars and then does not want to pay for them.

Like I said, go read some facts on why we think like we do and you just might see how you come to your fuc'd in the head conclusion.

Then and only then can this country start making needed changes.

I for one do not believe that will ever happen and that we are no different than any other dynasty. In other words I believe in human nature playing out just as it always has, especially on the nations that think they are so special in history.

You of course think otherwise, you pick and choose facts to fit your beliefs. You do not understand how science really works. That in a nutshell is what the real problem is.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by WTF

Maybe you are full of shit.

Go read those books and report back.

Nobody is resentful of anyone making 20mil but some folks do not like the fact that the 20mil person supports wars and then does not want to pay for them.

Like I said, go read some facts on why we think like we do and you just might see how you come to your fuc'd in the head conclusion.

Then and only then can this country start making needed changes.

I for one do not believe that will ever happen and that we are no different than any other dynasty. In other words I believe in human nature playing out just as it always has, especially on the nations that think they are so special in history.

You of course think otherwise, you pick and choose facts to fit your beliefs. You do not understand how science really works. That in a nutshell is what the real problem is.

as much as you MAYBE ok to have a beer with its not fruitful to discuss things with you.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

as much as you MAYBE ok to have a beer with its not fruitful to discuss things with you.

That's cause you're a fruitcake

[MrGiz]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

as much as you MAYBE ok to have a beer with its not fruitful to discuss things with you.

WTF is not interested in a discussion. . . . that would require listening to inferior, feeble minded idiots who have no ability to comprehend his vast complex of knowledge, experience, and philosophy!

Narcissist, defined!

[Iaintliein]

I assume, since some consider him a man of conscious, that he writes huge checks, far in excess of his tax liability to the IRS each and every year. Good for him! Maybe a few of the outspoken proponents of legalized theft here could pass up a few provider sessions and do the same.

On the flip side, does anybody find it really strange and more than a little disturbing how many put their own economic best interests above those of the nation and any semblance of principle?

It never ceases to amaze me that those who would never have the balls to pick up a gun and rob someone face to face would brag about hiring crooked politicians to do it in their name. All in the hopes it can somehow ease the burden of their own class guilt.

Maybe next Ted Kennedy's heirs will voluntarily pay a huge "death tax" on his estate. I'll bet that would be a first for the Kennedy family.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

I assume, since some consider him a man of conscious, that he writes huge checks, far in excess of his tax liability to the IRS each and every year. Good for him! Maybe a few of the outspoken proponents of legalized theft here could pass up a few provider sessions and do the same.

On the flip side, does anybody find it really strange and more than a little disturbing how many put their own economic best interests above those of the nation and any semblance of principle?

It never ceases to amaze me that those who would never have the balls to pick up a gun and rob someone face to face would brag about hiring crooked politicians to do it in their name. All in the hopes it can somehow ease the burden of their own class guilt.

Maybe next Ted Kennedy's heirs will voluntarily pay a huge "death tax" on his estate. I'll bet that would be a first for the Kennedy family.

hear, hear good fellow

hear ye and hear him

[waverunner234]

Of Topic
Shit I just heard Perry speaking, I threw up and now have to clean up the mess.

[WTF]

[QUOTE=MrGiz;1570765]WTF is not interested in a discussion. . . . that would require listening to inferior, feeble minded idiots who have no ability to comprehend his vast complex of knowledge, experience, and philosophy!

Narcissist, defined! [/QUOTEi learn as much from idiots as I do brainiacs. Why do you think I converse with you nummy nuts?

[MrGiz]

[[/QUOTEi learn as much from idiots as I do brainiacs. Why do you think I converse with you nummy nuts?[/quote]

We covered that a few days ago... but now you're talking nuts... so I'm not really sure!

Guess you just can't get enough...

[BigLouie]

For all those who ask why can't the ultra rich just write a check to the IRS, you can't. If you pay more than money than required the IRS will actually fine you.

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by WTF

Where you been El'Cappytan?

Oh, I've been around -- other than when I was chasing the cooler air of Jackson Hole and Colorado!

Originally Posted by WTF

What do you think about this guys thoughts? I think he is on to something by Georgie.

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/rogoff83/English


But the real problem is that the global economy is badly overleveraged, and there is no quick escape without a scheme to transfer wealth from creditors to debtors, either through defaults, financial repression, or inflation.

In my opinion, Rogoff is spot on. One of his basic points is that what he calls a "panicked fiscal surge" (2009 stimulus package) was not the appropriate policy response, since what we entered was clearly not the typical cyclical recession and demanded unconventional and extraordinary measures. Spending money wastefully and foolishly on political payoffs was simply not the right medicine.

Here's another interesting article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/bu...evil.html?_r=1

Paul Volcker, who of course was the Fed chairman who slew the inflation dragon in the early 1980s, disagrees vehemently. Apparently his view is that it's asking for real trouble to grab that inflation tiger by the tail. The other side of the coin is that we may have deflationary pressure for a period of time absent a continuation of aggressive monetary policy. It's an interesting debate. Given our present circumstances, I come out on Rogoff's side.

You might also check out Rogoff's excellent book, which he wrote along with Cuban-born Carmen Reinhart:

This Time is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly

Rogoff is widely considered to be one of the world's leading experts on financial crises.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by MrGiz

[[/
We covered that a few days ago... but now you're talking nuts... so I'm not really sure!

Guess you just can't get enough...

We keep talking about your lil pepe and nuts and people are going to start talking....

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Oh, I've been around -- other than when I was chasing the cooler air of Jackson Hole and Colorado!

Jackson Hole! Hot damn, I gotta get back up there, never been in the summer. I been spanking the golf ball up in Tahoe....to damn hot down here.



In my opinion, Rogoff is spot on. One of his basic points is that what he calls a "panicked fiscal surge" (2009 stimulus package) was not the appropriate policy response, since what we entered was clearly not the typical cyclical recession and demanded unconventional and extraordinary measures. Spending money wastefully and foolishly on political payoffs was simply not the right medicine.

Here's another interesting article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/bu...evil.html?_r=1

.

I agree....but if we are in a credit crunch, why was half the stimulis given on tax relief that just went to pay for increased gasoline? I thought that was all the tax portion of the stimulis did. Nobody paid down and debt, at least no poor people did.

Will check out the book....I think he and your buddy Paul Krugman were on Meet the Press last Sunday. Not much of a debate. They need to give guys like that an hour show to debate so I can try and figure out just wtf each of thems point is.

I'm headed out to get the book now.... before Barnes and Noble goes belly up like Borders!

Good article btw....though it does not offer a solution, it at least explains the problem(s)