Another shooting at Fort Hood

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

That was funny!

Question for Speedo. How many criminals have changed their mind about using a firearm in a gun-free zone due to the sign? That would be a good way to determine how many lives have been saved by gun-free zoning.

None in all likelihood. But how many lives have been saved because most soldiers are not allowed to carry concealed handguns? No way to assess that number. My place of work is a gun free zone. No one has ever been killed there over many years. Is it due to it being a gun free zone? Would someone have been killed if the building were not a gun free zone? Impossible to answer those questions. What I do know is that the people responsible for the lives of the people in the building have determined that it is safer if no one is carrying a concealed handgun.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

None in all likelihood. But how many lives have been saved because most soldiers are not allowed to carry concealed handguns? No way to assess that number. My place of work is a gun free zone. No one has ever been killed there over many years. Is it due to it being a gun free zone? Would someone have been killed if the building were not a gun free zone? Impossible to answer those questions. What I do know is that the people responsible for the lives of the people in the building have determined that it is safer if no one is carrying a concealed handgun.

The reason why no one at your place of work has ever been killed by a firearm has nothing to do with it being a Gun Free Zone. You could have everyone armed open or concealed and the death toll at your place of work would still be zero. Since this thread started I thought about Police Headquarters in any given city. All the officers working in the various offices are openly armed. I don't think I've ever heard of a shooting at a police headquarters building on national news.

Jim

[JD Barleycorn]

Police officers are trained and have certain known responsibilities but go to any gun show. You have everyone represented by race, sex, age, and sexual proclivities but have you ever heard of a gun show shooting? And they have guns that any police station.

[Yssup Rider]

I see JDIdiot has tried to shift the conversation away from his deplorable and disrespectful comments at the top of this thread. I do NOT approve of them. I suppose you, his Anti-American followers do, and, using your logic, therefore approve.

shame.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

I see JDIdiot has tried to shift the conversation away from his deplorable and disrespectful comments at the top of this thread. I do NOT approve of them. I suppose you, his Anti-American followers do, and, using your logic, therefore approve.

shame.

You don't approve, of what? I'll tell ya what I don't approve of , that this whole incident really stinks to high heaven. There actually was a company that placed a job add on Craig's list for individuals to participate in a training scenario for a Mass Casualty Incident at Fort Hood March 17,18,19. Seems a bit odd to me that two weeks later the real deal goes down. That's a bit too coincidental for something like this.

Jim

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

None in all likelihood. But how many lives have been saved because most soldiers are not allowed to carry concealed handguns? No way to assess that number. My place of work is a gun free zone. No one has ever been killed there over many years. Is it due to it being a gun free zone? Would someone have been killed if the building were not a gun free zone? Impossible to answer those questions. What I do know is that the people responsible for the lives of the people in the building have determined that it is safer if no one is carrying a concealed handgun.

You brought it up, Speedo. I thought you knew. I personally don't think anyone intent on committing a crime with a firearm would stop and turn around if they saw a "Gun Free Zone" sign.

But that's just me.

[JD Barleycorn]

I see that yapping little dog in the mirror. Like I said EVA wants to shut down discussion. I guess because he has nothing to say and didn't want anyone to either. Then along comes that little yapper nipping at the heels. Trying to use phrases like "anti-American" when he doesn't even know what it means. The fact is that after the first Fort Hood they put some new rules into place but there were all about legal gun owners and restricting what they could do with their guns. It had little to do with someone on the edge or a criminal with evil intent.

Every time we have a shooting the powers that be restrict gun owners more and claim victory when nothing else happens. Here is the problem, the same thing was done at Fort Hood after 2009 and the gun restrictions were trotted out again....but it happened again! The restrictions didn't work as predicted and now proven. That is what they would like to avoid and they have their little dogs out yappin.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Mr MojoRisin

The reason why no one at your place of work has ever been killed by a firearm has nothing to do with it being a Gun Free Zone. You could have everyone armed open or concealed and the death toll at your place of work would still be zero. Since this thread started I thought about Police Headquarters in any given city. All the officers working in the various offices are openly armed. I don't think I've ever heard of a shooting at a police headquarters building on national news.

Jim

Please tell me the source of your first two statements. Until you can back them up with FACTS I'll consider them to be 100% OPINION. IMHO there is no way to know. So far the policy has been 100% effective and there is no reason to test out whether or not allowing guns would keep the building just as safe. According to studies done on the subject, putting more guns into the hands of more people simply does NOT help.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/fi...uns-and-death/

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...y-guns-murder/

http://www.livescience.com/39813-gun...ms-deaths.html

https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu...20469/guns.pdf

Why does the policy at my building work?

First, workers in my office building are paid VERY well and would not jeopardize their jobs by carrying a handgun into the building. Second, if they WERE allowed to carry handguns into the building, how would a manager feel about having to fire an employee who he believes to be edgy and might be carrying?

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Police officers are trained and have certain known responsibilities but go to any gun show. You have everyone represented by race, sex, age, and sexual proclivities but have you ever heard of a gun show shooting? And they have guns that any police station.

Except for the few mass murder incidents (Newtown, Ft. Hood twice, Va. Tech, Washington Navy Yard, etc.), most crimes are by individuals who select one or two victims in areas where there are very few people around. The goal is to NOT get caught. Every week we have probably 100s of events similar in attendance to gun shows. But without as many guns. Probably no guns in many instances. And I can't tell you the last time, if ever, that there has been a shooting at such an event.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

You brought it up, Speedo. I thought you knew. I personally don't think anyone intent on committing a crime with a firearm would stop and turn around if they saw a "Gun Free Zone" sign.

But that's just me.

I responded to the only question you posed to me by you:

How many criminals have changed their mind about using a firearm in a gun-free zone due to the sign? That would be a good way to determine how many lives have been saved by gun-free zoning.

I agree with your statement in this post. The point is that NO ONE can answer with 100% certainty how a scenario would turn out if conditions were different. I'm sure your OPINION, and that of certain others, is that if soldiers at Ft. Hood were allowed to carry concealed weapons that the result would have been less than 4 dead and 16 injured. The fact is that we don't know. Not you. Not I.

The second point is that the people in charge of making such decisions have determined that not allowing concealed handguns on military posts make it a safer environment than allowing them. They know the environment better than you and I do.

[i'va biggen]

[QUOTE=JD Barleycorn;1055168740]I see that yapping little dog in the mirror. Like I said EVA wants to shut down discussion. I guess because he has nothing to say and didn't want anyone to either. Then along comes that little yapper nipping at the heels. Trying to use phrases like "anti-American" when he doesn't even know what it means. The fact is that after the first Fort Hood they put some new rules into place but there were all about legal gun owners and restricting what they could do with their guns. It had little to do with someone on the edge or a criminal with evil intent.

Every time we have a shooting the powers that be restrict gun owners more and claim victory when nothing else happens. Here is the problem, the same thing was done at Fort Hood after 2009 and the gun restrictions were trotted out again....but it happened again! The restrictions didn't work as predicted and now proven. That is what they would like to avoid and they have their little dogs out yappin.[/QUOTE



Where and I say where boy did you think there was a comment to shut down discussion? Hearing voices in your head again? What would gun restrictions have to do with a Military base? Your displeasure will have to be taken up with the CO of the base num nuts.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Please tell me the source of your first two statements. Until you can back them up with FACTS I'll consider them to be 100% OPINION. IMHO there is no way to know. So far the policy has been 100% effective and there is no reason to test out whether or not allowing guns would keep the building just as safe. According to studies done on the subject, putting more guns into the hands of more people simply does NOT help.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/fi...uns-and-death/

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...y-guns-murder/

http://www.livescience.com/39813-gun...ms-deaths.html

https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu...20469/guns.pdf

Why does the policy at my building work?

First, workers in my office building are paid VERY well and would not jeopardize their jobs by carrying a handgun into the building. Second, if they WERE allowed to carry handguns into the building, how would a manager feel about having to fire an employee who he believes to be edgy and might be carrying?

I suppose my statements are based primarily on opinion but there maybe some factual implications as well. First of all consider the people that you work with and around. Has there ever been an incident of aggression? A fistic encounter or a heated argument that may have indicated that if a firearm would have been present a shooting might have occurred. Another point, are employees subject to being searched upon entering the building specifically for the presence of a firearm? Although a "Gun Free" policy in any work place is a good one and everyone is expected and should adhere to it. Unfortunately though it can also be a false sense of security.

Jim

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by Mr MojoRisin

You don't approve, of what? I'll tell ya what I don't approve of , that this whole incident really stinks to high heaven. There actually was a company that placed a job add on Craig's list for individuals to participate in a training scenario for a Mass Casualty Incident at Fort Hood March 17,18,19. Seems a bit odd to me that two weeks later the real deal goes down. That's a bit too coincidental for something like this.

Jim

I do not approve of JDIdiot's disrespectful tone and inappropriate comments before the bodies of the victims were even cold.

This fuckhead dare criticize anybody for using the term Anti-American in reference with his outrageous and ignorant behavior.

Show us one fucking ounce of patriotism in anything you've written, JDIdiot. And all of you who stand with him should be ashamed. He doesn't make sense. He lies. And he's so fucking arrogant he actually believes you're bigger idiots than he is.

What do you think Jim? Should JDIdiot maybe have held his tongue for 24 hours before spewing his arrogant poppycock in this thread?

Should the flag be at half mast, or is JD right?

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I see that yapping little dog in the mirror. Like I said EVA wants to shut down discussion. I guess because he has nothing to say and didn't want anyone to either. Then along comes that little yapper nipping at the heels. Trying to use phrases like "anti-American" when he doesn't even know what it means. The fact is that after the first Fort Hood they put some new rules into place but there were all about legal gun owners and restricting what they could do with their guns. It had little to do with someone on the edge or a criminal with evil intent.

Every time we have a shooting the powers that be restrict gun owners more and claim victory when nothing else happens. Here is the problem, the same thing was done at Fort Hood after 2009 and the gun restrictions were trotted out again....but it happened again! The restrictions didn't work as predicted and now proven. That is what they would like to avoid and they have their little dogs out yappin.

Who trotted out anything about gun restrictions, shithead? You're making things up again. What gun restrictions were enacted? How was this responsible for the latest retard mass murder? Who said it was? You're a fucking liar again.

You're a narcissistic little jerkoff. Just take responsibility for your offensive behavior and start another Benghazi thread.

I think we all know the meaning of Anti-American. Look in your own mirror, you fucking disgrace. You claim to be a veteran. right...

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

I do not approve of JDIdiot's disrespectful tone and inappropriate comments before the bodies of the victims were even cold.

This fuckhead dare criticize anybody for using the term Anti-American in reference with his outrageous and ignorant behavior.

Show us one fucking ounce of patriotism in anything you've written, JDIdiot. And all of you who stand with him should be ashamed. He doesn't make sense. He lies. And he's so fucking arrogant he actually believes you're bigger idiots than he is.

What do you think Jim? Should JDIdiot maybe have held his tongue for 24 hours before spewing his arrogant poppycock in this thread?

Should the flag be at half mast, or is JD right?

I don't recommend anyone to be Anti-American. Although I do advise everyone to be anti- bullshit which is what this whole incident represent. That's what you should really disapprove of.



Jim